Knocked Prone and occupied spaces - Help

[nazzguk]

My first post for some help This board has been a great resource for information getting used to 4th Ed and I was hoping to get some help...

I am starting a new Campaign and I want my players to run into some mindless constructs early on. The constructs are focused on reaching certain locations and have the ability to knock targets prone with one of their attacks. The way I want to play them is if anyone is in the way of the most direct path to their objective they attempt to knock the target prone and then shift into the square on top of the person. As soon as they have a free line towards their destination they will attack anyone close, and then move closer to their objective.

I am having a hard time finding what is allowed for prone and occupied spaces. If Construct (standing) and PC (knocked prone) occupy the same square will the construct get negative to hit? or penalties on their attacks?

If the PC is in an occupied square they can shift to and adjectent open square as part of their move action to stand. I am then assuming they will draw an oppurtunity attack when performing the stand action though?

Feel free to go, well you didn't look to hard bonehead read page X of book YYY.... This is my first time behind the screen in a long time (2nd Ed) and I still got some work to do on 4th Ed. Thanks in advance for the help
Nazzguk

[Oompa]

I have to seek the page numbers for you but,

You can't end in an square that is occupied by someone else..

I'll go seek

[Oompa]

Found it at page 283...

[themilkman]

PHB p283 regarding ending movement: "You can end your movement in an ally's square only if the ally is prone. You can end your movement in an enemy's square only if the enemy is helpless."

Assuming that the same rules apply to your construct monsters (and they definitely don't have to), then it might not be legit to have your constructs sit on people while they're prone. However, I would suggest that you take a look at the gelatinous cube. It has a power for engulfing people that might work similar to what you're after. At least, it can be a template for whatever mechanic you make up.

Edit: Ah! Oompa got me!

[nazzguk]

Thanks Oompa... Not the answer I was hoping for... The PHB game me hope with the Stand Up section in movement... If space is unoccupied you can stand, if your square is occupied you can shift 1 into an adjacent square...

Could be why I couldn't find any more rules about prone and sharing spaces... This is going to change my battle around a little The mindless constructs bowling people over to get to where they want won't work out... I guess I will have to change the area they where fighting in for one (was going to be tight hallway) and change their power into something push based..... Hrm..I could work that into the story as well...
Nazzguk

[Darkwolf71]

Are these construct made with this 'reach the goal' intent built in? If so, just give them an At Will that allows them to knock a target prone then shift past them. (Shift 2 should do it.)

[nazzguk]

Thanks Milkman Oompa is FAST though

I loved the idea of these Constructs (don't want to say much yet, I know one of my players reads Enworld as well and this is a full custom campaign heh) just knocking the players down and marching on towards there goal with a single minded determination even if that means over them BUT I didn't want to make it to hard on the PC's are the constructs as well...

Good thing I got a few days to change around my encounters Engulfing isn't really an option with what I have designed... Maybe they can throw the PC prone in a square behing them though with a flexible wrestling move or give them a push and change around the scenery....

I was going to post the constructs after the first game under player creations for other people to check out.... So if curious I can fill in more information then when I post them.. Just I don't want the players to catch wind of any of the story yet...

Thanks again to you both, this board has been a great help thanks to people like you.
Nazzguk

[nazzguk]

Hey Darkwolf,

They are mindless constructs who are spreading a message, each has a set goal that they need to reach and ravage before being destroyed. If/when the PC's get in the way I want them treated with disregard..

Shift 2 will work for most of the battles... and it will work for the other one if I redesign where they are fighting one of the encounters...

Really it's that I liked the visual of the PCs being stepped on <G> So shift 2 would work as would picking up the PC and just dropping them over the shoulder behind them

If I go with either option... standing up adjacent to an enemy = AO?
Nazzguk

[Kordeth]

Originally Posted by nazzguk

Good thing I got a few days to change around my encounters Engulfing isn't really an option with what I have designed... Maybe they can throw the PC prone in a square behing them though with a flexible wrestling move or give them a push and change around the scenery....

Better than engulf, give them a trample attack (see the warhorse entry for an example) and you're all set.

[nazzguk]

Hrm.. going to have to read up on trample tonight when I get home to my books (stupid work thing eating up so much D&D time)... A trample might work and I can just adjust damage... (they are all squeaky clean LV1s and this will be the opening chapter to a campaign don't want to hurt them to badly)

Thanks Kordeth
Nazzguk

[Mithreinmaethor]

There is a construct in LURU1-1 module for LFR that has a Standard Action - Trample, where it moves upto its movement and can move thru occupied squares as long as it ends its movement in an unoccupied square. If it moves thru a PC's square it makes an attack against reflex that if it hits knocks the PC prone and does some damage.

[nazzguk]

They stole my idea Sounds like it might be the way to go though.. I just was thinking slow and plodding constructs...

[monboesen]

Also keep in mind that one of 4ed best features is that monsters dont follow any standard rules. As the DM you just figure out what the monster should be able to do and choose a mechanic that simulates that. It doesnt matter that the players, or other monster, can't do the same thing.

So it sounds like you want your constructs (I figure they sound like Brutes) to have a powers that goes something like this....

Unstoppable Plodding
At-Will
Standard Action
Attack: Level +1 vs. Fortitude
Hit: (Damage determined as per DMG page 185). Target knocked prone and the construct shifts into the targets square.


Beneath my Notice
At will but see requirement
Requires prone target
Standard Action
Attack: lvl +3 vs. AC
Hit: (Damage determined as per DMG page 185).
Effect: The construct moves it speed.


By setting the powers up this way the construct cant do both attacks in one turn, because that might be to powerful (two attacks in one turn). But that can easily be changed by making Beneath my Notice a move action.

Consider giving the PC lying prone beneath the construct a substanstial attack bonus (is should more than equalize the -2 penalty for being prone) for attacking the "soft" underbelly. This will make it a risk/reward decision to roll out and stand up or stay down, make an attack with a bonus, but risk being trampled.

[Goblyns Hoard]

Another option would be to add a slide 1 (or maybe 2) to the knock prone effect (and maybe reduce any damage a bit to make up for the other effects). This way your constructs are smacking everyone out of their way. Each attack they bash whoever is in their way aside clearing their path completely.