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Simple really when a monster power states it does, for example, 1d6+4 Necrotic and Cold damage is that 1d6+4 of both or... what?
The reason being in a game the other evening my Kobold Wild Mage exploded for-
Wild Blast (when reduced to 0 hit points)
When a kobold wild mage is slain, it explodes: close burst 2; +10 vs. Reflex, 2d6 + 4 fire, cold, and lightning damage.
Which resulted in 12 HP damage for each type, and damn near wiped the floor with the adventurers who had never met a Kobold Wild Mage before, it was last man standing and in the centre of a scrum of PC attackers.
Very cacklesome from a DM POV- 36 hit points damage, my players however are saying that can't be right- so, is it?
Damage of multiple damage types still only do one instance of damage. However, it is counted as the nastiest type of these in case the monster has any resistances or vulnerabilities.
Let's say your Starlock has some sort of Chill of the Stars power that does 2d6+Con Cold and Radiant damage. He uses it on a Chillborn Zombie (resist 10 Cold, vulnerable 5 Radiant). He rolls 7+5 for 12 points of damage, and thus inflicts 17 points of damage on the zombie. The zombie's resistance to cold never comes into play, because the vulnerability overrides it.
The only time you'd get multiple instances of damage would be a power like Prismatic Beams, which specifies that it does 2d6+Int poison, 2d6+Int fire, and dazes.
Let's say your Starlock has some sort of Chill of the Stars power that does 2d6+Con Cold and Radiant damage. He uses it on a Chillborn Zombie (resist 10 Cold, vulnerable 5 Radiant). He rolls 7+5 for 12 points of damage, and thus inflicts 17 points of damage on the zombie. The zombie's resistance to cold never comes into play, because the vulnerability overrides it.
Keywords [Revision]
Player’s Handbook, page 55
Replace the second and third sentences of the fourth paragraph with the
following: “Also, resistance doesn’t reduce damage unless the target has
resistance to each type of damage from the attack, and then only the weakest of the resistances applies. For example, a character who has resist 10 lightning and resist 5 thunder who takes 15 lightning and thunder damage takes 10 damage because the resistance value to the combined damage types is limited by the lesser of the two resistances.”
The text that overwrites (p 55) also explains how multi-typed damages still do only one instance of damage. Multi-typed damage is just a resistance-defeating tool.
Frost weapons are two feats for delayed gratification .. whilst Flaming weapons are +4 level ..
Those are both nice combos, but a sufficiently hefty investment they're not the least bit broken.
__________________ The Passion of Lovers is for Death
Damage of multiple damage types still only do one instance of damage. However, it is counted as the nastiest type of these in case the monster has any resistances or vulnerabilities.
Let's say your Starlock has some sort of Chill of the Stars power that does 2d6+Con Cold and Radiant damage. He uses it on a Chillborn Zombie (resist 10 Cold, vulnerable 5 Radiant). He rolls 7+5 for 12 points of damage, and thus inflicts 17 points of damage on the zombie. The zombie's resistance to cold never comes into play, because the vulnerability overrides it.
The only time you'd get multiple instances of damage would be a power like Prismatic Beams, which specifies that it does 2d6+Int poison, 2d6+Int fire, and dazes.
It is my understanding that the vulnerability to radiant damage doesn't override the resistance to cold, rather it's the lack of resistance to radiant that what makes all the damage go through.
The vulnerability just makes him take more damage when he is hit by radiant damage, unrelated to what resistances the creature may or may not have.
It's possible to be both resistant and vulnerable to the same damage type (such as Resist Cold 10, and then gaining vulnerable cold 5 due to being attacked by someone with the Lasting Frost feat).
In this case, if you get hit by an attack that does 6 cold damge your resistance drops the damage to 0, but your vulnerability causes you to take 5 cold damage anyway (at least that's my current understanding of how it works).
It's possible to be both resistant and vulnerable to the same damage type (such as Resist Cold 10, and then gaining vulnerable cold 5 due to being attacked by someone with the Lasting Frost feat).
In this case, if you get hit by an attack that does 6 cold damge your resistance drops the damage to 0, but your vulnerability causes you to take 5 cold damage anyway (at least that's my current understanding of how it works).
No, I think that would work out to one extra point of damage. Since the rules do not specify that resistance works first and vulnerability works second, it's a situation where either the one subtracts from the other, or all damages add up first before subtracting resistance.
Otherwise, vulnerability would be more powerful than resistance.
Take your example with resistance Cold 15. The creature should take no damage. Vulnerability states that the creature takes more damage of that damage type. It does not state that the creature does so after subtracting resistances. So, 6+5 = 11. 11-15=0 damage. Just because a creature takes more damage does not mean that it is still enough to get past resistance.
__________________ The first sign of a broken rule is when someone suggests that the way to stop it is by readying an action.
No, I think that would work out to one extra point of damage. Since the rules do not specify that resistance works first and vulnerability works second, it's a situation where either the one subtracts from the other, or all damages add up first before subtracting resistance.
Otherwise, vulnerability would be more powerful than resistance.
Take your example with resistance Cold 15. The creature should take no damage. Vulnerability states that the creature takes more damage of that damage type. It does not state that the creature does so after subtracting resistances. So, 6+5 = 11. 11-15=0 damage. Just because a creature takes more damage does not mean that it is still enough to get past resistance.
At the moment, I disagree. I think the additional damage you take from being vulnerable is seperate from the damage of the original attack, and the resistance only works against damage from the attack. Not a "first or second" timing, but an "all the damage from the attack and the vulnerability takes place at the same time" kind of thing.
I could be wrong, but that is my current understanding of how it works.
Since I'm not actually sure anymore, I sent this question off to Customer Support. It will be useful as another data point if nothing else:
Quote:
If a creature with resistance to a specific damage type also gains a vulnerability to that damage type, how is the damage applied?
Example: Creature has Resist 10 cold and Vulnerability 5 cold, and then takes 6 cold damage. Does the Resist 10 drop the initial damage to 0, and the vulnerable 5 cause you to take 5 damage?
Or does the vulnerability 5 increase the initial damage to 11, and then the Resist 10 drop it to 1 point of damage?
Thank you for your time,
********************
Page Number: Page 276
Book Name: 4e Player's Handbook
I could be wrong, but that is my current understanding of how it works.
Maybe, but vulnerability states that you take more damage of a certain type and resistance states that you take less damage of a certain type.
Nothing in their descriptions states that the more damage supercedes the less damage. No different than any other damage in the game system. Add up all the damages, subtract the appropriate resistance, apply total. Your interpretation would be add up all of the damages except vulnerability, subtract resistances, then add vulnerability, apply total.
__________________ The first sign of a broken rule is when someone suggests that the way to stop it is by readying an action.
Since I'm not actually sure anymore, I sent this question off to Customer Support. It will be useful as another data point if nothing else:
Doesn't vulnerability only come into play when you take damage in the first place? That leads me to believe that, in your example, the target would take 0 damage from that attack (6, reduced to 0 for resistance, and since he didn't take any damage we don't apply vulnerability). On the other hand, if he initially took 11 points of cold damage, it would be reduced to 1 for the resistance, then increased to 6 for the vulnerability (activated since he took cold damage).
I'm worried you may have unintentionally tainted your own question to CS by not including this possibility as an example (as well as possible others that we haven't thought of yet).
Looks like KD was right, here's the response I received:
Quote:
The easiest way to calculate is (Damage + Vulnerability) - Resist.
Thus, vulnerability 5 increases the initial damage (6) to 11, and then the Resist 10 drops it to 1 point of damage. So, in this case, the creature would take 1 point of damage. Please let me know if you have any more questions!
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