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Old 27th November 2008, 06:05 AM   #21 (permalink)
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ppaladin123 Hobgoblin Soldier (Lvl 3)
swordmage guards with this utility stance:

Dimensional Warding Swordmage Utility 6
Your warding warps the flow of magic around you, preventing
enemies from sneaky escapes or attacks.
Daily ✦ Arcane, Stance, Zone
Minor Action Close burst 2
Effect: The burst creates a zone that lasts as long as the
stance persists. Enemies within the zone cannot teleport.
Enemies outside the zone cannot teleport into it.
Special: The zone remains centered on you, even if you move.
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Old 27th November 2008, 06:21 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I know this is probably not very helpful, but I have decreed that, in my world, cast iron (not steel) disrupts most teleporting powers (but not rituals).

So a simple and cheap iron gate prevents an Eladrin from teleporting out, however pure iron is brittle and easily broken, so people wanting to prevent teleporting intruders do well to alternate iron portcullises with heavy oaken doors and good-old-fashioned moats
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Old 27th November 2008, 07:03 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I don't need to hose them, but I do want to take them into account. I'd feel pretty foolish if I design my impregnable fortress (with 10' walls) and someone uses their armor of breaching to stroll inside.

Good stuff here.
Just make sure your walls "go to 11"
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Old 27th November 2008, 08:27 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Well, most teleport powers require line of sight, and the rituals (pre-epic) require a target circle. So the only things you have to worry about are:
A) Wall-passing stuff like Breaching Armor.
B) That one Warlock power that doesn't require line of sight.

A low-cost solution I used in 3E, which should work against breaching armor as well, is to use non-solid walls. For every 1-2 feet of wall thickness, have a 1" gap. Things targetting a part of the "wall" - like Disintegrate, Passwall, and so forth - only get you through one layer.

For bonus points, make your layers out of different materials (alternating stone and iron, for instance), and put unpleasant things (poison gas, swarms of undead bugs, etc) between them.

As for the Warlock power, it only gets one person in, so just make sure you have sufficient guards inside that one intruder can't open the gates.
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Old 27th November 2008, 08:55 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Most teleport powers require line of sight - IIRC, the only PHB teleport that doesn't is the level 10 daily Warlock's Leap.

So the fortress should be designed to make sure outsiders can't readily see inside of it.
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Old 27th November 2008, 11:26 AM   #26 (permalink)
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For the level range given, it doesn't seem like there is a major issue.

I do think that any major (or even minor) fortress is going to want a teleport circle. It is sort of like a needing a front gate: the utility of being able to move to and from your fortress under siege is worth the extra effort of fortifying the teleport circle room. And, of course, said teleport circle room will be heavily fortified, much like the main gate.

Now, if your slightly egocentric/paranoiac castle-wizard decides to up and make his own teleport circle in secret (because he is too important to bother/doesn't want anyone watching him travel), then you have a problem. Or, from the PC's POV, probably an opportunity. While the existence of such an illicit circle does have something of the feel of a deus ex, it also feels very... human, which makes it quite excusable.
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Old 27th November 2008, 02:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Honestly, I'd let them teleport in. Nothing is more frustrating for a player who has designed their character to be an infilitrator to hear "Sorry, you just can't teleport in."

I remember back in the days of that horribly broken 2E module, Labrynth of Madness, if you used passwall on a wall, there were spectres that lived in the wall that you unleashed. You might consider modifying that idea to your liking. What I mean is maybe there are spirits or elementals that live in the walls and can sense teleportation. Maybe they just tag along and can attack.

And speaking of Passwall, with it being a level 12 ritual, that's a viable option here too with the levels you have given. The "spirits in the wall" gig could take care of that too.

The advantage it offers is that the PCs are successful; they got in. But they also have a fight on their hands, and maybe one they weren't ready for. The spirits shouldn't care about alerting whoever lives there, just that someone has magically "violated" their castle.

I'd be careful about a wholesale Forbiddence at levels 10-14. If this was an epic castle, I'd say go for it. But pulling out a ritual that's at least 6 levels higher level than the party is a little rough.
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Old 27th November 2008, 03:57 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Piratecat View Post
I don't need to hose them, but I do want to take them into account. I'd feel pretty foolish if I design my impregnable fortress (with 10' walls) and someone uses their armor of breaching to stroll inside.

Good stuff here.
Note that not all PCs will be equipped with the Armor of Breaching per default. So, getting one to the other side can be useful, but might not be overpowered (and sometimes be dangerous to the "breacher").

If the PCs really ensure that they get these armor of breachings for every PC - then let them. They apparently made a plan and prepared it.
Unless you absolutely do not want anyone to get into the building ever. But then you have to take into account them using "traditional" methods to break through the wall, too.
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Old 27th November 2008, 05:34 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm trying to figure out how "infiltration-proof" a fortress can be.
I'd be more worried about Phasing, and to a lesser extent, Burrow.

Assuming I'd worry about such things at all, which I probably wouldn't.



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Old 27th November 2008, 08:20 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Most teleportation that can get you into a fortress is going to kill the teleporter, or at least put him in harm's way. The only group teleportation at that level is Arcane Gate (needs line of sight) and Teleportation Circle (needs a known circle to target). Instead of banning it, what about taking a page out of Monte Cooke's design repetoire and bringing it in as a non-necessary, but highly useful, means of entering the place.

Teleport Circle: It's likely that the fortress would want a circle of its own, and unlikely that the PCs would know anything about it. Don't mention it in flavor text anywhere, but prep a skill challenge for the party to do should they come up with the idea on their own. Success means they find the circle somewhere, and get to bypass the larger force of gate guards but still have to contendwith the teleportation room itself (traps and/or guards). Failure means they don't find it, and have to contend with the harder front gate.

Arcane Gate: forbiddence or making the fortress a giant dome / underground vault are the easiest ways to stop this, but if the only spots that can easily be seen from the ground are guarded or trapped, it can allow for a third entryway that creates more challenges instead of closing doors.

The rest of the teleports can be left up to each individual GM to dela with. Warlock's Leap and Breaching Armor are great, but it's a bad idea unless everyone can do it.

In my epic game I've avoided "no teleport" zones almost completely. The only time I used it was in a trap, where the PCs were split by falling portculli and then surrounded by artillery and minions. The area of the trap itself did not allow teleportation, but everywhere else did. That way it was only that one encounter that shut down a large portion of the warlock's abilities, and the rest of the adventure he was free to bamf all over the place.
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Old 28th November 2008, 08:52 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Stick subtle runes into the brickwork? Passive perception 20? (Our level 6 group has 2 people with passive higher than this, so 10-14 should be no problem).

DC 25 Arcana check and "it's some kind of preventative to teleportation. Also of reinforcement to the walls."
DC 30 gives you "It's likely to redirect anyone trying to teleport to another location. Within the castle, but you don't know where".

Frankly, as a player, (a) I'd not want to teleport past the subtle runes on the wall. (b) I wouldn't want to get dumped, on my own, somewhere at random...

A simple 'someone's beaten this idea' is fair enough. And anyone rich enough to build a castle is likely to have thought about it.

If you wanted to get carried away, add in the ritual they used to create the runes at the back of the module?
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Old 28th November 2008, 01:12 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Bleoberis De Ganis Kobold Slinger (Lvl 1)
They shouldn't have just boring teleport prevention. There should be a better ritual.

Abysall Shunt.

When teleportation powers are used in the area the magical energy is used, amplified and corrupted in such a way that the teleporter is shunted into the Abyss and set upon by tearing, ripping horrors.

That'll stop 'em. Bring back hanging.
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Old 29th November 2008, 06:47 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I'd be more worried about Phasing, and to a lesser extent, Burrow.

Assuming I'd worry about such things at all, which I probably wouldn't.
Hmm. Are there any magic items or powers that allow pre-epic phasing?

Honestly, I don't care whether the PCs can teleport into the building or not, but its relative degree of teleport-proofness before the PCs get there has an affect on the plotline. I'm just anal enough to want to avoid big 'ole plot holes.

Thanks, everyone!
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Old 29th November 2008, 07:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Forget the green gas, just make the room sufficiently distracting to allow a short rest ... and thereby the eladrin gets to die from failed endurance checks.
Eventually.
Right. Teleportation moats are a pretty good idea. And putting another extra wall around fortresses is probably also sufficient against tactical teleportation - the added benefit is that it's not too stupid (it's a pretty good way to hose people breaching the first wall by conventional means as well) and clever players scout first then try to get into the "moat" to teleport inside properly.

Not making it impossible, just making it very hard and dangerous... much more what I want to do to my players - in the spirit of "Yes, and...".

Cheers, LT.
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Old 29th November 2008, 08:27 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Hmm. Are there any magic items or powers that allow pre-epic phasing?
* Ghost Bridle, lvl 4 magic item, AV pg 123

* Body, No Body, lvl 16 Utility power, FRPG pg 44
* Wraithform Blast, lvl 20 attack power, FRPG pg 49

* Bodak Skulk, lvl 16
* Phantom Warrior (Ghost), lvl 4 (and all other Ghosts)
* Githyanki Gish, lvl 15
* Rakshasa Assasin, lvl 17
* Shadow Snake, lvl 16
* Specter, lvl 4
* Shadow Hulk, lvl 17
* Wraith, lvl 5



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Old 29th November 2008, 09:40 PM   #36 (permalink)
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* Ghost Bridle, lvl 4 magic item, AV pg 123

* Body, No Body, lvl 16 Utility power, FRPG pg 44
* Wraithform Blast, lvl 20 attack power, FRPG pg 49

* Bodak Skulk, lvl 16
* Phantom Warrior (Ghost), lvl 4 (and all other Ghosts)
* Githyanki Gish, lvl 15
* Rakshasa Assasin, lvl 17
* Shadow Snake, lvl 16
* Specter, lvl 4
* Shadow Hulk, lvl 17
* Wraith, lvl 5
You're like a God made flesh.. a very handy god who just stopped me from making the exact sort of goof I was afraid of. One of these monsters is in the adventure, and I should take the phasing into account. Excellent, thank you!

Forbiddance doesn't prevent phasing, does it? So something like a rakshasa assassin could walk right into an area with forbiddance. Interesting.
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Old 29th November 2008, 10:54 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Just make a fortress with no windows!

That way teleporters can still use their powers, they just can't bypass any obstacles.
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Old 30th November 2008, 02:02 AM   #38 (permalink)
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No problem, Piratecat. I might even be able to swing a playtest of your adventure for you, if you're interested.

Forbiddance won't help but it looks like Magic Circle (level 5 ritual) might.



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Old 30th November 2008, 02:09 AM   #39 (permalink)
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James McMurray Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Or add a new ritual that sytops phasing through walls. It could be cheaper if cast when the building is created, since you would be merging the ingredients with the mortar. IIRC gorgon's blood was used for that in previous editions (maybe in the Stronghold Builder's guidebook?)

I don't know about everyone, but I like adventures that come with a couple new powers, items, or rituals. That way they continue to be a useful resource even after I've played/run them.
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