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The knocked prone is potent, at least. Prone is a nice condition that wastes a move, and gives CA.
It can be potent. But we have found it not to be in almost every fight so far. So far all it has really done is well nothing, they fall down, there up and charge the party. The range of 10(especially since the wizard is usually not in the front ranks) makes it so the targets need to be in the perfect spot for this to disrupt a round of attacks. Also for combat advantage to pan out initiative has to work out well for you so you can take advantage of it.
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It can be potent. But we have found it not to be in almost every fight so far. So far all it has really done is well nothing, they fall down, there up and charge the party. The range of 10(especially since the wizard is usually not in the front ranks) makes it so the targets need to be in the perfect spot for this to disrupt a round of attacks. Also for combat advantage to pan out initiative has to work out well for you so you can take advantage of it.
You can manipulate initiative by having people (or the wizard) delay.
I don't think I'm telling any tales out of school to recount a very nice conversation I and the other Eggheads had at Gen Con with Mearls on this very topic. If you're interested in seeing another take on the controller role--playing with conditions and saving throws--you should check out the free heroic-tier playtest doc of Rob Donoghue's Witch Doctor class.
Our resident wizard found that Magic Missile was kind of bland. However, coupled with its master's wand (push 1 on a hit), he suddenly felt a lot better about it...
To those that say the wizard at will are already strong, consider that the wizard has terrible AC, hitpoints and healing surges, and that his at wills hit allies in addition to enemies. He has fewer options to avoid or mitigate OA's, and he doesn't have the defenses to risk many. In other words, more powerful at-wills may be a means of compensating; they're better compensation than more powerful encounters or dailies since they're useful more often, but also since they're less easy to obtain via multiclassing. After all, you want to avoid the situation where the best "wizard" is actually a different class multiclassed into wizard.
Balancing offense and defense isn't easy, but it's necessary if the game isn't to become monotonous. 4e already errs rather heavily towards same-ness between classes (compared to 3.5), and while this is good for balance, it's bad for diversity, so I don't think the appropriate response is to balance the at-wills of every class.
So, while such overall class and role balance might not be easy to find when crucial aspects such as at-wills diverge, it's important they try.
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4e balanced random loot system
- Think item wishlists are devilspawn?
- Dislike the impact of a few bad item picks by the DM on the party?
- Or find it ludicrous that PC's constantly just "happen" to find magic items tailored to their needs?
Try: A simpler treasure system for (mostly) random loot.
3.5 death&dying variant
- Tired of players that won't cure their mortally wounded allies 'cause "he's only at -2"?
- Tired of a dying mechanic which uses anachronistic d10's?
- Tired of a dying mechanic which never kicks into action for high level characters, which tend to go from alive and kicking to instant death before anyone can intervene?
- Tired of horribly complex house rules?
Try: Death & Dying - a better (and simple!) system
Hmm ... change "shift" to "moves without shifting"
Yeah, that probably would work even better.
The idea, I guess, is to punish them for trying to get off the clump, and that way you could explain that the spell leaves ember on the ground or something like that, and if they want to leave they'll have to do so carefully.
To those that say the wizard at will are already strong, consider that the wizard has terrible AC, hitpoints and healing surges, and that his at wills hit allies in addition to enemies. He has fewer options to avoid or mitigate OA's, and he doesn't have the defenses to risk many.
I agree with the broad idea: wizards are generically weaker (and frankly have fewer class features than many). But AC is generally top notch. AC17 at first level is darn good (doesn't everyone take leather at 1st level?) Only defenders and archer-rangers will have a better AC at 1st level. And IME that continues all the way up to 30th.
I still feel the wizard at-wills don't need any help. I think the invoker at will is only a very very small delta (generally less than slow or prone) so not a big deal...
4e really undervalues area attacks. Sure they are weak against solos. But they are huge the rest of the time. I'm playing a cleric in one game, and "divine glow" has been unbelievably useful. My fighter in another game finds his encounter (passing attack) to be "eh". But my cleric's encounter is a big deal.
I think feats and items will keep the wizard in favor. The dual nature of druids and the heal/buff focus of invokers will mean ther will be a limited amount of feats and items available to them that would increase their controller aspect.
The crazy rereqs of the damage type feats (Dex/Cha, Int/Wis, Con,Wis, Con/Dex) help. Wizards benefit from most of those crazy combos because of Implement Mastery. Combine that with the paragon damage type feats, wizards can do a LOT more. I doubt druid and invokers will hit so many damage types.
The wizard in our 4e game is stunningly ineffectual. I think the "Nerf wizards!" meme went way too far. We have a melee-heavy party (rogue, ranger, paladin, wizard, bard) and we are in an urban campaign, which means a lot of tight alleys, small rooms, and interior spaces. Slowing enemies doesn't work because the melee is rushing into range with them. Hindering terrain screws us up at well. Area spells catch us in the bargain. So, pretty much, he's limited to magic missile, or "Magic Missing", as it has become known.
Definitely needs a buff.
I think it's interesting that the "Controller" in 4e is supposed to be what most would call a Debuffer in an MMORPG. This is a very useful role in a group (my ranger Daily which weakens a foe is extremely effective), but the wizard, currently, doesn't cut it. Since they seem to know this, it will be interesting to see if it's "fixed" in Arcane Power. (Is that before or after PHB2?)
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I don't particually like vanguards lighting. Fire seed has plus and minuses to scorching burst, as the power has to be centered on a target, this has a lot less flexability in targeting than Scorching burst. The abilty to hit a bunch of minions, or to inflict a resonable damage on a group does not need any more bells and whistles.
Magic missle (with the bracers of perfect shot) and Scorching burst were favored in my game. Cloud of daggers was talked about as the best at will, because you can continually push monster back into it. In practice why bother? Push powers are better held for pushing people into lingering dalies, avoiding swarm aura's or exploiting terrain.
The at-will that really lags is ray of frost. Slow is nearly useless, and its poor damage. the twin element feats are hard to use as the twin 13 requirement is counter productive to the SAD wizard.
Not every power needs an upgrade.
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Our resident wizard found that Magic Missile was kind of bland. However, coupled with its master's wand (push 1 on a hit), he suddenly felt a lot better about it...
If people wanted to boost the power and controller-ness of wizard at-wills, they could do a lot worse than just giving the wizard the benefits of Master's Wands automatically. So any wizard using Magic Missile gets to push 1, regardless of implement.
And it took Mearls this long to realize that the Controller was the anti-Leader role? I've known that since before Races and Classes was published. (You can see a similar dichotomy between Strikers and Defenders.)
The wizard in our 4e game is stunningly ineffectual. I think the "Nerf wizards!" meme went way too far. We have a melee-heavy party (rogue, ranger, paladin, wizard, bard) and we are in an urban campaign, which means a lot of tight alleys, small rooms, and interior spaces.
Playing a 4e wizard in this kind of setting is like playing a 3e mounted paladin on a barge.
Since they seem to know this, it will be interesting to see if it's "fixed" in Arcane Power. (Is that before or after PHB2?)
It's gotta be after.
I think they're waiting until they have 4 classes in a single power source before they release "X Power." So, we get Martial Power now because there were 4 Martial characters in the PHB.
Arcane Power will have Wizards (PHB), Swordmages (FRPG), Bards (PHB2), and ... Sorceror, I want to say? (PHB2) So, we need those last 2 classes before we get the Power book.
I think PHB2 will also clear the way for the Divine Power book.
One thing that's important to realize is that the wizard barely has controller class features. From a balance perspective, his spellbook and cantrips are practically flavor. Other than orb broken-ness, his implement mastery is also almost a non-issue (and often not to do with actually controlling)
It's almost all about the at-wills. If controllers are defined by at-wills then their at-wills need to be better than other people's (and not 'more damage than twin strike' but actually controlling would be good). Vanguard Strike and Chill Wind are examples of interesting controller at-wills. Magic Missile is not. Magic Missile with push 1? Absolutely.
My view is that the role of controllers should be area (mobility) denial and imposing conditions on the opponents. I don't want my wizard to fill the same damage-dealing role that my party's rogue and warlock fill. I want to limit what the enemy does and allow the strikers to be more effective in their role. Icy Terrain is great for my 2nd level wizard because I can knock things prone and let the rogue go nuts.
Let me clarify. When designing powers, adding something to an attack (say slow) means you will have it deal less damage to keep it balanced. The bigger the bonus the more the damage is cut or level raised.
4e doesn't cut damage enough for area attacks. So in general area attacks are some of the best powers in the game IMO. Certainly hitting one person for 2X damage is generally better than hitting 2 people for X damage. But it seems with area attacks (especially those that don't hurt allies) the debate is 1.1X against 1 person or X vs. 4. It's an easy call 90% of the time. The other 10% is when you really need to kill _that_ baddy or you have a solo.
So I agree, the internet fans undervalue area attacks, but so did the designers.
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