Does knee Breaker and Frost weapon stack?

[Azza]

Hi all,

I've got a fighter with Knee Breaker Daily Power from Martial Power.
He has just got hold of a frost axe.

So my question is. A hit with the knee breaker does damage and cause the target to be slowed. If the target is already slowed it is instead immobilized.
The axe has the free action daily power that can slow an opponent until the end of you next turn.
So would if be possible to hit the opponent with knee breaker, activate the free power of the axe to slow the opponent therefor immobilizing it? Or would the slow effect of the knee breaker have to come first rendering the second slowed condition obsolete?

If the target is immobilized would it only be to the end of you next turn, as this is when the axe power runs out?


Thanks
Aaron C

[Hypersmurf]

Originally Posted by Azza

So would if be possible to hit the opponent with knee breaker, activate the free power of the axe to slow the opponent therefor immobilizing it? Or would the slow effect of the knee breaker have to come first rendering the second slowed condition obsolete?

The free action happens 'when you hit', so it's occurring at the same time as the power's 'Hit' entry. Philosophy appears to be that for actions that occur at the same time, the character can choose the order they happen, so I'd allow the Frost slow to be in place before the Knee Breaker hit entry is resolved.

(I've actually seen a couple of suggestions for CustServ for resolving simultaneous events - one is that the initiating character determines order, another is that the creature whose turn it is determines order... but it would likely only result in a difference if the Knee Breaker attack was a readied action occurring on someone else's turn.)

If the target is immobilized would it only be to the end of you next turn, as this is when the axe power runs out?

No; whether or not they're already slowed only matters at that instant. If they're already slowed, they gain immobilised (save ends). Subsequently becoming unslowed doesn't alter the immobilised effect.

-Hyp.

[themilkman]

Ninja by the smurf. He said everything I did, but better!

[Azza]

Very nice . That explanation makes alot of sense
Thanks again

[Starglim]

Agree also. The frost weapon power is neither an immediate interrupt nor immediate reaction, so it occurs when the power says it does, "when you hit" and could be either just before or just after the knee breaker effect.

The best principle I've seen (not just for 4e) is that undefined combinations of character abilities should be interpreted to the benefit of the creature that has the ability.

Thus the attacker can decide that the frost weapon activates, slowing the creature, then the knee breaker hit effect applies.