D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
Assuming you are playing 4e, there are stats for the whip in Dragon 368, in the gladiator article. However, it's a superior weapon, which means that you need to spend a feat to use it properly.
Given that your DM has started you at Level -1 and at -2,900 XP (which is more XP than would be required for a 1st-level character to reach 3rd level), he might have house-ruled the whip also.
Further, Istar, I really have to stress that you need to understand how powers work in 4E. The bonus you get to attack and damage rolls is not dependent on the weapon itself, but on the power being used. This is the same answer as your question about the longbow. Also, you should be aware that melee basic attacks and ranged basic attacks are, themselves, powers with specifically defined characteristics. I know you don't feel a need to know the PHB backwards and forwards, and that's okay by me. But please don't crowd the forum with threads and questions that have already been answered. We're here to help you understand 4E and have fun in your game, but please help us help you. Try to fully understand one answer we've given you and apply it correctly before asking the same question again.
Not trying to flame here, sorry if it seems that way.
Further, Istar, I really have to stress that you need to understand how powers work in 4E. The bonus you get to attack and damage rolls is not dependent on the weapon itself, but on the power being used. This is the same answer as your question about the longbow. Also, you should be aware that melee basic attacks and ranged basic attacks are, themselves, powers with specifically defined characteristics. I know you don't feel a need to know the PHB backwards and forwards, and that's okay by me. But please don't crowd the forum with threads and questions that have already been answered. We're here to help you understand 4E and have fun in your game, but please help us help you. Try to fully understand one answer we've given you and apply it correctly before asking the same question again.
Not trying to flame here, sorry if it seems that way.
So you dont know then.
So far I know its a free website with no restrictions on how much I can post, unless someone can inform me otherwise ?
If you dont like my post, you dont need to post a reply, particularly so if you have no help to offer.
I have, as stated in my post, searched the PHB and other 4e soures for "Whip" and cant find anything.
The DM is new to 4e, as are all of us, after 23 years of 1st and 2nd Edition.
We will get round to reading most, but right now I am up to all the Rogue stuff and Martial Mastery, PHB is next.
But right now, we are level -1, with no powers / skills / abilities, in the wilderness fighting nature "Like Man V Wild" with a "Whip" and I need to find out what it does ??
With your extensive reading and knowledge, do you know ?????????
As stated in the second post of this thread, the Whip is detailed in Dragon 368. If you don't have access to that resource, use the Flail from the PHB. They're in the same weapon group.
Edit: Partially Ninja'd. Information in the post above mine is incorrect, but it's close.
The whip is a superior weapon. As you don't have classes yet you presumably don't have feats or proficiencies so the proficiency bonus doesn't matter anyhow.
This sounds like the makings of trouble anyway. Our DM of 5 years started our 4E campaign with a ton of houserules - and we left him shortly afterwards.
Handicapping your characters at lvl -1 sounds like the doings someone who has no full understanding of the balance of the ruleset. Technically if you have no powers, you are incapable of making even basic attacks - as it is a power.
And also - you say that you have read all the rogue stuff and martial mastery - do you mean the martial powers sourcebook ? This book should not be read by someone who does not know the PHB. I would strongly suggest your group read and play by the rules outlined in the PHB first - get to know the rules outlined therein by playing skirmishes and skill challenges (as this is a vastly different game than the older sets) and then decide if there are rules to change before you start your real wildnerness campaign.
Does your DM feel that 1st level PC's have too many perks when they begin and he wants to begin play with less-heroic characters ? That is certainly do-able in the ruleset, but I might get bored before I got 2,900 xp that way. On the bright side, no matter how much xp you are back, the system figures 10 encounters/level. Depending if you go from -1 to 0, You should be at 1st level than 7 sessions from now (assuming you get 3 encounters/session and he follows that guideline).
If you wanted to play something off the bat without reading the entire PHB, I would strongly suggest at least knowing the quick-start rules guide from Keep On The Shadowfell.
Last edited by burntgerbil; 9th February 2009 at 06:38 PM..
Reason: clarity
Handicapping your characters at lvl -1 sounds like the doings someone who has no full understanding of the balance of the ruleset. Technically if you have no powers, you are incapable of making even basic attacks - as it is a power.
I wonder if level -1 means you have negative HPs? Would a healing surge cause you damage and getting hit by a weapon heal you? If you manage to advance to level 0 do you finally achieve 0 HPs or do you blink out of existence with null HPs?
Anyway, don't forget fists are weapons in 4E. Everyone is Chuck Norris.
Sounds like a challenging campaign start, congratulations on gaining your PCs' freedom.
Weapons aren't Dex based or Str based. They are melee or ranged. The ability score used depends on the power you use. Ignoring class powers, you can make a melee basic attack or ranged basic attack. A melee basic attack uses STR to modify to hit and damage. A ranged basic attack (generally) uses DEX to modify to hit and damage. I say generally, because if you are using a weapon with the heavy thrown property (like a javelin or handaxe) then you use STR to modify to hit and damage. Putting your groups ruling on the whip into the rules-speak of 4e, sounds like your group has decided (without trying to put words into your mouth):
1) the whip is a ranged weapon, but you hang on it when you use it or
2) the whip is a melee weapon with a new weapon property. Let's call the new property (for the sake of giving it a name) flexible handheld. This property means melee basic attacks use DEX to modify the to hit roll. It is up to your group to decide wheter to use STR or DEX for damage.
Can a whip do anything else? In 4e this would have to be in realm of a class (or perhaps race) based power, rather than being some sort of ability of the weapon.
e.g. this is made up power for the non-existant overseer class
Take 'em Down Overseer Attack 1
You strike at the slave's ankle, pull hard and he hits the ground Encounter . Martial, Weapon
Standard Action melee weapon
Target: One creature
Requirement: You must be wielding a whip Attack: Dexterity vs. AC Hit: 1[W] and target falls prone.
__________________ Anyway, to cut a long story short I threw a and a which beat his and a , another double followed by a double and a double . After he'd thrown a and a I threw a and a .
Level - 1!? Damn, that sucks. I'd be ticked off, but everyone has a different preference. And I'm a Dark Sun player, so I guess I'm cool with starting PCs off as slaves.
Still, I think Firelance has the right approach - consult your GM. Since he's houseruling this, he's probably house-ruled your whip. And everything else.
Good luck, because you're in for a world of confusion - your GM's houserules, while also asking questions at this site that would conflict with your actual game experiences.
Finally, Istar - I'd go easy on CMbarona. He was just trying to help. I realize some others have been a bit harsh when you ask a question, and that can put you on the defensive, but it doesn't pay to snap at people for trying to help.
Now, to answer the question at hand...
I would say it's dexterity based, and does dexterity modifier damage, if used as a basic attack. As CM said, though, this all changes depending on which power you use. Personally, I'd drop the whip and find myself a club - they're easy to find, and they don't require you to blow a feat to use properly. Plus, since you'll gain your level in a bit (you start at -3000? Man, that sucks!), odds are you don't want to keep the whip for long when you become whatever it is you plan on becoming (I'm guessing Rogue?)
__________________ Current Campaign:The Shattered Isles Homebrew - Hammer (Minotaur Fighter 8), Kirra (Drow Rogue 8), Shedin (Dragonborn Paladin 8), Zahar (Half-Eladrin/Half Drow Bard 8), and Seahorse (Halfling Rogue 8). Currently the group is in the Feywild, trying to discover who is poisoning the drow.
Superior one-handedmelee weapon
Cost: 1 gp Damage: 1d4
Proficient: +3
Range: -
Weight: 2 lb.
Although an impractical weapon in most hands, a well-placed hip strike can put one’s opponent at a serious disadvantage.
Properties:
Reach (With a reach weapon, you can attack enemies that are 2 squares away from you as well as adjacent enemies, with no attack penalty. You can still make opportunity attacks only against adjacent enemies. Likewise, you can flank only an adjacent enemy.).
Off-Hand (An off-hand weapon is light enough that you can hold it and attack effectively with it while holding a weapon in your main hand. You can’t attack with both weapons in the same turn, unless you have a power that lets you do so, but you can attack with either weapon.).
Group:
Flail (Weapons in the flail group have a flexible material, usually a length of chain, between a solid handle and the damage-dealing end of the weapon.).
I find the slave/level -1 idea intriguing. Good luck. Here is your 1d4 weapon. When you get to level 1 and slowly acquire feats and class powers, you'll put it to good use. There is even a feat called "Slave Fighting" which lets you attack from prone without penalty.
You'd need to subscribe to DDi in order to make use of it though. There is a gladiator article in Dragon your campaign would get a kick out of.
The DM wants to play the flip side of the high stat heroe's we are used to playing.
Level 1 is a "Hero" class, but all heroes started out somewhere as nobody's, he wants to explore why and how we became level 1 heroes from nobody's.
At least we didnt have to do too much history for our characters, but we have gone deeper into personality traits to try and roleplay them more than usual.
So you dont know then.
So far I know its a free website with no restrictions on how much I can post, unless someone can inform me otherwise ?
If you dont like my post, you dont need to post a reply, particularly so if you have no help to offer.
I have, as stated in my post, searched the PHB and other 4e soures for "Whip" and cant find anything.
The DM is new to 4e, as are all of us, after 23 years of 1st and 2nd Edition.
We will get round to reading most, but right now I am up to all the Rogue stuff and Martial Mastery, PHB is next.
But right now, we are level -1, with no powers / skills / abilities, in the wilderness fighting nature "Like Man V Wild" with a "Whip" and I need to find out what it does ??
With your extensive reading and knowledge, do you know ?????????
Umm... Wow.
This is the type of 'arrogant prick' post that makes people not answer your myriad of questions. (I know I'm done.)
cmbarone clearly knows the asnwer, and if you read his response at all, you would see that the fact that it's a whip has nothing to do with whether or not it uses STR or DEX. As he said, it depends on the power that you use. In the hands of a rogue, this is likely going to be DEX. For a fighter, it will be STR. A paladin? Could be CHA. Again, it depends on the power, NOT the weapon.
Many people have been more than reasonable answering your questions that by all rights are answered clearly in the PHB. Your lack of effort to even bother with reading the rules is one thing. Your ungrateful attitude is too much, and isn't the way to make a good first impression here.
Later
Gruns
There was already enough said about the attack-attributes and the whip itself, but I just want to add that you usually don't learn the Whip by the Weapon Proficiency Feat, but with a special Multiclass Whip Feat instead. This feat not only gives you the proficiency but also a special attack that make the weapon interesting and opens up a few other Whip-Feats.
So if you don't have the Dragon than you should buff the Whip a bit or it would be a weak weapon since it is build for the special Feats.
and a 
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followed by a double 
Linear Mode
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