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The level 12 Daggermaster (rogue paragon path) utility feat is called Meditation of the Blade. It says until end of encounter, your dagger die size is increased by one size.
Does this have any real effect other than letting you roll 1d6 instead of a 1d4 for the one single dmg dice you roll?
This power seems terrible to me - like really really bad as in I would never ever take it since doing 1-2 more pts dmg 33% of the time is just terrible for a level 12 ability.
Im just wondering if I am missing something - I am still learning 4e so I am hoping that I am...
This power seems terrible to me - like really really bad as in I would never ever take it...
Well, good luck with that, since it's not a class power, you can't retrain it. If you play a warforged rogue you there one way to get rid of it, but otherwise, no dice.
Yeah, all it does is take you from a d4 to a d6. But you're a daggermaster: you crit on an 18-20. When you crit, that's 6 damage per [W] die instead of 4. When you throw in the feat from Martial Power that makes daggers high crit, that's another 2[W] on a crit.
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It's another way to increase your damage that will stack with all other damage increases.
By the time you reach paragon levels, it's the small +1 or +2 bonus damage that you can stack via feats, class abilities, items and powers that will make a huge difference in how effective a striker you are.
Ah - so there are no other options but take it is what your saying. I thought there were more choices in the PHB or somewhere else you could choose from.
I didnt realize they forced you into takin such a worthless ability - I am suprised at both the worthlessness and the forced taking of it.
In 4th ed its all about the small bonuses. A higher die is the name of the game with regards to damage (look at Backstabber & Leathal Hunter feats). You may think 1d6 is not that big of a deal compared to 1d4. But then you have your other encounter powers and special abilities that use 2[W] or 3[W] or more. So now instead of doing 2d4 you are doing 2d6 or even 3d6. Not too bad when rogues already get a +1 bonus for using daggers. The little numbers all add up.
Ah - so there are no other options but take it is what your saying. I thought there were more choices in the PHB or somewhere else you could choose from.
I didnt realize they forced you into takin such a worthless ability - I am suprised at both the worthlessness and the forced taking of it.
1) It's not worthless.
2) You're not "forced" to take it, it's given to you. There is absolutely no cost associated with it, that's how paragon paths work. At 12th level, the game says "here, have another utility power."
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I have a rogue, only level 4 now, but i am planning on making him a daggermaster. The thing to remember with daggermaster is it's all about trading big dice for better chances to hit. No character in 4e (that we've seen so far, anyway) should have better base chances to hit than a daggermaster, and no one will crit more often, but in exchange for that, you usually have to roll the puny 4 sided dice and listen to the defenders mock you while they roll their 10 and 12 sided dice (when they manage to hit, big oafs). So I like to think that this utility power is just a nice treat, when everything else about you screams hit often for less damage, here's one thing that gives you some damage back.
Plus like Nebten pointed out, it applies to everything, and by then you'll have access to 4[W] and more powers, so while 1d6 isn't much better than 1d4, 5d6 is quite a bit better than 5d4. Especially when you crit with an 18 and have CA and suddenly drop about 70 on the guy who's back you just buried your dagger in... That'll shut those defenders up.
Last edited by Futzy; 10th February 2009 at 09:58 PM..
Wow, I am a bit surprised that someone hates this ability so much. Its very nice for adding extra damage to your dagger attacks that only costs a minor action and lasts for the entire encounter. The average damage of a single d4 is 2.5 while a d6 is 3.5. That's a point of damage increase per die on non-crits and 2 extra damage per die on Criticals, it turns Critical Opportunity from a 7.5 average 12/Crit damage power to 10.5 average 18/crit damage power. Since you are using daggers, every little bit of damage really helps. It also combos nicely with the feat Rogue Weapon Mastery.
I have a rogue, only level 4 now, but i am planning on making him a daggermaster. The thing to remember with daggermaster is it's all about trading big dice for better chances to hit. No character in 4e (that we've seen so far, anyway) should have better base chances to hit than a daggermaster, and no one will crit more often, but in exchange for that, you usually have to roll the puny 4 sided dice and listen to the defenders mock you while they roll their 10 and 12 sided dice (when they manage to hit, big oafs). So I like to think that this utility power is just a nice treat, when everything else about you screams hit often for less damage, here's one thing that gives you some damage back.
Plus like Nebten pointed out, it applies to everything, and by then you'll have access to 4[W] and more powers, so while 1d6 isn't much better than 1d4, 5d6 is quite a bit better than 5d4. Especially when you crit with an 18 and have CA and suddenly drop about 70 on the guy who's back you just buried your dagger in... That'll shut those defenders up.
Avengers might have a better base chance as long as they're attacking their preferred enemy and they're only next to that enemy.
From what I've heard about them at least they're strikers who do more damage because they hit more often.
The level 12 Daggermaster (rogue paragon path) utility feat is called Meditation of the Blade. It says until end of encounter, your dagger die size is increased by one size.
Does this have any real effect other than letting you roll 1d6 instead of a 1d4 for the one single dmg dice you roll?
I wonder if you are mistaking end of the encounter for end of the round?
The encounter in which you use 'meditation of the blade' you are doing 1d6 for your W damage instead of 1d4.
So you do 2d6 / 3d6 with your powers instead of 2d4 / 3d4 for the duration of the encounter. What's not to like?
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Ah - so there are no other options but take it is what your saying. I thought there were more choices in the PHB or somewhere else you could choose from.
I didnt realize they forced you into takin such a worthless ability - I am suprised at both the worthlessness and the forced taking of it.
Very retorical response to call it worthless. Sounds like you have made up your mind already.
Its funny, you call this ability "worthless", where I think its one of the best stance abilities in the game!
Rational : Accuracy is king in 4th edition. Who gives a crap if you have the best power going if you cant deliver it accurately? The amount of time a daily has been squandered on a miss I cant count. So rogues have a killer advantage in that with daggers, between their class feature and proficiency they get a full +4...BEST IN THE GAME!!
Only problem is : d4 is pissy damage. But our rogue doesnt care cause he does everything he can to grant himself combat advantage and therefore draw out surprise damage. Accurate delivery of surprise damage.
So, the attack is accurate. Now consider this, every dice up represents a +1 damage on average (do the math) and +2 on critical per roll. So, if a rogue uses a 3(W) attack, its +3 damage and +6 if he crits. Now consider that a dagger master crits on an 18-20 (BEST IN THE GAME). In fact, that would mean the damage from the attack in question from a critical result goes from 12 pts to 18 pts...a full 50% before bonus's!
I choose sir to stand opposite you and say that this ability is not worthless at all, it's awesome!
Last edited by BobTheNob; 11th February 2009 at 08:34 PM..
I view it as a fairly weak power but well balanced with the Paragon class is considered as a whole. Certainly not worthless, but similar in power to a feat (exotic WP) but only for one encounter per day. It helps: anything that just flat out adds damage is nice. But there are certainly better utility powers out there IMO.
Eh. Not every power can be looked at in isolation. The PC as a whole is one of the better ones...
Also, I personally hate rolling d4s for some reason. So the power is worth it to me just for that... :-)
Mark
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Last edited by brehobit; 11th February 2009 at 09:36 PM..
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