No Druid flight abilities akin to Cloud Chariot?

[webrunner]

Originally Posted by DracoSuave

We're -not- talking about the Wild Shape power. We're talking about powers that shape you into other creatures, like birds. The Wild Shape power is an at-will, and that 'breather' can be an instant, and is negligible. The others are dailies, and therefore require extended rests to get beyond that single encounter use. That's no subtle difference between them.

The thing is, the druid powers (such as the bird power) do not turn you into a bird. They let you use wild shape to turn into a bird until the end of the encounter. You get a condition "Wild shape can be used to turn into a bird" until the end of the encounter. RAW, you can remain a bird, but if you switch you cant change back.

[NorthSaber]

I would also say that Wild Shape doesn't have a duration - it's a switch that makes an instantaneous change, but that change is then permanent until changed again. Black Harbringer adds an extra option for the duration of the encounter, but if you flip that switch before it ends, you can remain in bird form as long as you want.

That's how I would rule this issue, and I think it's either RAW or close enough.

[DracoSuave]

Any power that doesn't otherwise state a duration has a duration of an encounter/five minutes. That definately includes Wild Shape.

And no, a daily power that says it only lasts an encounter is intended to last an encounter. Druids aren't supposed to be the masters of using dailies to get around travel restrictions. Want to overland travel? Use a ritual. That's what they are there for, and why Druids get Ritual casting.

[CapnZapp]

Originally Posted by NorthSaber

I would also say that Wild Shape doesn't have a duration - it's a switch that makes an instantaneous change, but that change is then permanent until changed again. Black Harbringer adds an extra option for the duration of the encounter, but if you flip that switch before it ends, you can remain in bird form as long as you want.

That's how I would rule this issue, and I think it's either RAW or close enough.

This ruling makes Druids overpowered in some players opinions.

Feel free to rule it this way in your campaign, as longer as you're prepared for the consequences, but it's clearly not RAI.

[Regicide]

Originally Posted by DracoSuave

Any power that doesn't otherwise state a duration has a duration of an encounter/five minutes. That definately includes Wild Shape.

Any power that doesn't state a duration is instantaneous. Wildshape doesn't have a sustain requirement nor a conditional duration so it's permanent.

[Tellerve]

I'm officially having this be the last comment I make in this thread as it became apparent that swaying opinions on the internet is pretty futile. But since I mentioned I was contacting customer service about this I figured I'd show their response.

XXXXX,

Thank you for writing.

Black Harbinger lasts until the end of the encounter as it states in description.

Good Gaming!

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Customer (XXXXXXXX) 03/24/2009 02:05 PM
I have a question on how this utility power works. If I was a druid who used this power during an encounter, at the end of the encounter can I stay as a tiny Raven? If so, how long do I stay as this tiny raven? I feel that you aren't allowed as it says in the power, "Until the end of the encounter", however, others argue that it augments the Wild Shape power which has no duration. If that is the case, it seems a tad powerful to me, as it would seem to allow you to stay as a tiny raven indefinitely. Would love some clarification on this.

Thanks

********************
Page Number: page 84 and 88
Book Name: Player's Handbook 2

[Regicide]

Originally Posted by Tellerve

Black Harbinger lasts until the end of the encounter as it states in description.

Which, while being a true statement is neither useful, nor the answer to the question you asked.

Anyway, wildshape is permanent as per durations in PHB. Black Harbinger lets you use wildshape to change into an actually useful form. Nothing says you lose wildshape at the end of the encounter when you use Black Harbinger, so you remain in raven form until you intentionally leave it.

Interestingly enough, as wildshape is written you're unable to LEAVE raven form until you use Black Harbinger again. So if the encounter ends and you're still a raven, you're SOL until you can get the utility back. RAW are wonderful!

You'll want to houserule it to either have it say you leave raven form when the power ends, or allow wildshape to work from any form you happen to be in (not just human and beast) into human and beast. At least until PHB2 gets errat... er... updated.