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Hello everyone, got some questions about the Warden:
What's the point of Warden's Grasp? I mean, to mark someone, he has to be adjacent to you. So, to be in the range of Warden's Grasp, but not Warden's Fury, he had to have already moved, so what's the point on the Slow + cannot Shift?
Warden's Fury's range is Melee Weapon. So, if I have a weapon with Range, I can use it up to 2 squares away from me, right?
Assuming 2 is 'yes', is it worth the cost? You'd either have to forgo a Shield, or take Superior Prof with the Whip. The Whip's damage is quite laughable, but then again, you're not a Striker, so maybe that's alright?
In your opinion, would a Warforged or a Goliath work best with a Warden? I've got interesting concepts for both, and I can't decide. They are quite similar, but I think that, given a Warden's high AC, the Warforged's temp+real HP will help him more than a Resist damage that may not be triggered at all thanks to your AC.
And that'd be all regarding the Warden, but I've got a bonus question regarding D&DI: I wanna give it a try (was really impressed by the Char Builder), so I'm gonna try it for a month. How does that work? Do you subscribe for, say, "April" and get access during that month, or is it for any given 30-days period? As in, if I subscribe right now, March 26, I'd have access until April 26?
Anyways, that's all. Thanks in advance. P.S: My first thread in ENWorld
Hello everyone, got some questions about the Warden:
Okay!
Quote:
[*]What's the point of Warden's Grasp? I mean, to mark someone, he has to be adjacent to you. So, to be in the range of Warden's Grasp, but not Warden's Fury, he had to have already moved, so what's the point on the Slow + cannot Shift?
It's not a Slow + Cannot Shift. It's a Slow, Cannot Shift, and a slide, and it lasts until the end of their -next- turn. So while it doesn't have an -immediate- benefit, it -does- make it harder for him to escape your mark -next- turn, while pulling him away from the guy he attacked so your ally can get away... don't want your buddies provoking OAs, right?
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[*]Warden's Fury's range is Melee Weapon. So, if I have a weapon with Range, I can use it up to 2 squares away from me, right?
That is correct, sir.
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[*]Assuming 2 is 'yes', is it worth the cost? You'd either have to forgo a Shield, or take Superior Prof with the Whip. The Whip's damage is quite laughable, but then again, you're not a Striker, so maybe that's alright?
Honestly, if they are at range attackin' your friends, and you don't care about damage, Warden's Grasp is a far more useful power.
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[*]In your opinion, would a Warforged or a Goliath work best with a Warden? I've got interesting concepts for both, and I can't decide. They are quite similar, but I think that, given a Warden's high AC, the Warforged's temp+real HP will help him more than a Resist damage that may not be triggered at all thanks to your AC.
If you're going to Sword+Board, Warforged. If you're going for a Big Frakkin Weapon, go Goliath.
Quote:
And that'd be all regarding the Warden, but I've got a bonus question regarding D&DI: I wanna give it a try (was really impressed by the Char Builder), so I'm gonna try it for a month. How does that work? Do you subscribe for, say, "April" and get access during that month, or is it for any given 30-days period? As in, if I subscribe right now, March 26, I'd have access until April 26?
Anyways, that's all. Thanks in advance. P.S: My first thread in ENWorld
Good catch on the Slide+duration. Can't believe I missed it, I must be getting old.
Also, I probably should've mentioned this: My DM allowed me to take Whip Training without being a Martial char, so I'd get to impose another -2 to the enemy triggering the power. Since it is an interrupt, I'm assuming it'd stack with the -2 from the Mark, and the enemy would have a total of -4 to hit my ally, right?
The only thing I could possibly add is that at paragon tier there is a feat for the Wildblood Warden that will let you move closer to a marked enemy who attacks an ally. This eliminates the need for a reach weapon.
The Grasp is not only SLIDE1, it's SLIDE1 as an Immediate Interrupt. So if an enemy triggers hits an ally with a melee attack, you can automatically negate the attack by moving the enemy out of melee range.
Thinking about it, I have a question myself. Let's assume the enemy makes a Ranged or Area Attack, and the Warden slides the enemy adjactent to himself or an ally. Would the attack still trigger OAs?
The Grasp is not only SLIDE1, it's SLIDE1 as an Immediate Interrupt. So if an enemy triggers hits an ally with a melee attack, you can automatically negate the attack by moving the enemy out of melee range.
Thinking about it, I have a question myself. Let's assume the enemy makes a Ranged or Area Attack, and the Warden slides the enemy adjactent to himself or an ally. Would the attack still trigger OAs?
No, cause warden's grasp is a reaction and no interrupt..
Warden's Grasp tho is probably the better of the two in a tactical sense, because moar damage is fine, but being able to rip them off your buddy -in whatever direction you choose- is cake. And then slowing AND making them not able to shift? They'll not be able to catch up should the buddy run... they'll be forced to come to you.
Fury is handy if he's attacking your Rogue or Two-Weapon Ranger that is a melee striker so doesn't need to escape, Grasp is good if he's managed to get toe to toe with your wizard or warlock and they want to get away.
It's not a Slow + Cannot Shift. It's a Slow, Cannot Shift, and a slide, and it lasts until the end of their -next- turn. So while it doesn't have an -immediate- benefit, it -does- make it harder for him to escape your mark -next- turn, while pulling him away from the guy he attacked so your ally can get away... don't want your buddies provoking OAs, right?
Are you sure about this? The text for warden's grasp clearly states:
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Effect: You slide the target 1 square. The target is slowed and cannot shift until the end of its turn.
Since an immediate reaction would happen during the target's turn, wouldn't the slow wear off almost immediately?
It's useful if the enemy was going to attack, then shift/move. Especially things like Kobolds and Goblins with their damn "Shifty" nonsense. This'll stop 'em!
I agree with Hvitserk, you are grasping during the the enemies turn and it just stops him from shifting and slows him for the rest of THAT turn. It won't cause their attack to fail if you shift them out of range because it is a reaction. The other aspects of it are AFAICT basically meant to stop the enemy from moving back into contact with whoever was attacked, yes to give them a chance to escape, but I'm not sure how that will be very effective since the enemy is now only 1 square out of position and even a slowed enemy can surely move one square... Maybe they'll provoke an OA by doing so vs a shift, but they can do it.
Personally I don't think Warden's Grasp is all that great. But it is a free power, so who can complain?
Warden's Fury OTOH is an interrupt, so there is at least a chance that the CA it grants could be available to an OA from another character that was triggered by the same attack. It is not real likely in practice, but it could happen. Plus at least the CA lasts a whole round. Someone will take advantage of it. And yes I'd think extending its range using a polearm would be a nice idea. It isn't quite threatening reach, but it is about as close as a PC can get and again it is a totally free power, so yehaaa!
Just MHO, If I had to choose, I'd probably take Fury, but it would depend on the overall character build.
The point is tho, you don't -have- to choose. You use the power that's best in each situation. There are times where moving a monster 1 will save your party when an extra hit will not. It's all down to tactical decisions, something that can't really be compared until the moment figures are set down on the grid, and attack rolls are actually made. From that standpoint, even if you only use it once per combat, that one use is going to be one you'll be thankful for.
Plus, without it, you're not terribly sticky, and a monster can just shift-then-charge your buddy without consequence. With this, the Warden -can- punish someone for doing it.
Hello everyone, got some questions about the Warden:
[list=1][*]What's the point of Warden's Grasp? I mean, to mark someone, he has to be adjacent to you. So, to be in the range of Warden's Grasp, but not Warden's Fury, he had to have already moved, so what's the point on the Slow + cannot Shift?
Unlike other defenderss, Warden's don't punish critters for attacking your allies as such. In stead, they let their allies get away. For example:
Monster moves up adjacent to ally and attacks them. The warden then, after the attack, slides them away and prevents them from shifting later that turn(for things like kobolds, or any other power that lets you shift as part of that attack).
When the attacked allies turn comes up, he can just do a full move away, rather than having to decide between doing a shift+attack(and probably getting smacked again next turn) and a shift+move(and not getting an attack that turn).
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