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The Half Elf Emissary (Bard Paragon class from Arcane Power) has a really weird class feature. At level 11 it gets the following:
Quote:
"your bonus to Diplomacy checks from your Group Diplomacy racial trait equals your Charisma modifier. In addition, allies within 10 squares of you apply this bonus to all checks with Charisma-based skills in which you are trained"
Now, the odd thing about this is that I presume that if someone plays the Bard, especially if they choose the Emissary paragon class is that they want to be "Face" of the party. However this class feature makes other people in your party better at it.
At level 11 we can assume that the bard has at least +5 in Charisma. If I read the above correctly then this means that any other character who happens to have the same skill trained will be better at it then the emissary. Even if he has lower Charisma.
Am I correct in reading this? Does this make any sense at all to someone here? How does this feature help your character be an "Emissary" instead of the "Emissary's Assistant"?
It is pure win in a social based group skill challenge, where more party members can be "faces".
Also there may be story reasons why it is important for pc 2 to be talking rather than super diplo-bard. ie Half-Orc Ranger talking with full orc tribesman.
From someone who runs a skill heavy game, this PP is flat out broken. Skill bonuses in some games don't seem like much, but +5 to all cha based skills is just heinous good.
Make it half your Charisma bonus? That way you should still be better than your buddies, right? And it's not as broken?
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It just amplifies what was already an odd racial power. Otherwise the abilities of the path are solid (though the dilettante recharge is useless since everybody in their right mind takes versatile mastery). I might build a half-elf paladin/bard and take it.
From someone who runs a skill heavy game, this PP is flat out broken. Skill bonuses in some games don't seem like much, but +5 to all cha based skills is just heinous good.
I think skill challenges and skill DCs and even the DM screen are a pretty clear indication that WotC doesn't even touch skill checks. I'm 100% serious, 5E won't even have skills.
It is funny how a class called "Emissary" stands at the back and lets others speak for him since he potentially becomes the worst in the party at it. And "Warlords" are one of the weakest fighters... I think they need to revise how they name the leader classes.
"your bonus to Diplomacy checks from your Group Diplomacy racial trait equals your Charisma modifier"
That's worded weirdly.. *you* don't HAVE a bonus to diplomacy checks, you grant other people bonuses, but it isn't "your bonus to diplomacy checks" is it?
It is funny how a class called "Emissary" stands at the back and lets others speak for him since he potentially becomes the worst in the party at it.
No, they get the Charisma bonus because the emissary honeys everything the other players say. They're the main ones making rolls and trying to make points to the duke, but the bard keeps chipping in a lot, adding smooth compliments to the fighter's grunting argument to make it sound better.
So no, he's not standing back 'in-scene', he's just not making the actual rolls.
~
__________________
Click above to see S7S's FREE Rune Soldier Heroic Tier Playtest
also check out Silent7Seven.com for information on The Lunar Scrolls,
and the Advanced Class line including "Druid — Favored Forms"
and "Sorcerer — Aberrant Blood"
No, they get the Charisma bonus because the emissary honeys everything the other players say. They're the main ones making rolls and trying to make points to the duke, but the bard keeps chipping in a lot, adding smooth compliments to the fighter's grunting argument to make it sound better.
So no, he's not standing back 'in-scene', he's just not making the actual rolls.
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From 10 squares away? To 4 other characters simultaneously? In a language he doesn't even speak? While he's doing something else completely different himself? Is he shouting random gibberish at the top of his lungs like he has tourette syndrome and getting really lucky laying on the honey?
Don't try to describe what is going on in 4E. You can't. You just can't.
I think skill challenges and skill DCs and even the DM screen are a pretty clear indication that WotC doesn't even touch skill checks. I'm 100% serious, 5E won't even have skills.
It is funny how a class called "Emissary" stands at the back and lets others speak for him since he potentially becomes the worst in the party at it. And "Warlords" are one of the weakest fighters... I think they need to revise how they name the leader classes.
Quote:
From 10 squares away? To 4 other characters simultaneously? In a language he doesn't even speak? While he's doing something else completely different himself? Is he shouting random gibberish at the top of his lungs like he has tourette syndrome and getting really lucky laying on the honey?
This is a great example of the conservative thinking of D&D players. The bonuses given out by this paragon path and by thw Warlord class do not have to be passive bonuses that are there because of the fabric of the universe, they can be there because of activity by the character. Simply because one character is making a role, this does not mean that the character alone is taking the action, especially when boosted by the ability of another.
Rather than try to make it work in the actual narrative of the game, the D&D player would rather have some sort of proceedure drawn up, reducing everything to a set of properties of the universe and their relationship between each other.
It is equivalent to refusing to watch Star Trek because of the Universal Translator or the presence of humanoids throughout the galaxy (even with the canon explanation). Sure, such things are in principle impossible, but we overlook these thins because they get us to the story.
D&D players should be actively playing out these abilities, not simply letting them do the real work or role-playing.
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Last edited by Kwalish Kid; 24th April 2009 at 05:57 PM..
It is equivalent to refusing to watch Star Trek because of the Universal Translator or the presence of humanoids throughout the galaxy (even with the canon explanation). Sure, such things are in principle impossible, but we overlook these thins because they get us to the story.
D&D players should be actively playing out these abilities, not simply letting them do the real work or role-playing.
That makes no sense. Saying it is equivalent to Star Trek, which does NOT try to play up the universal translator is what *I* am saying, ignore it, take the plus, and go on, there is no explanation for it. That is the OPPOSITE of what you're saying to do.
From 10 squares away? To 4 other characters simultaneously? In a language he doesn't even speak? While he's doing something else completely different himself? Is he shouting random gibberish at the top of his lungs like he has tourette syndrome and getting really lucky laying on the honey?
Don't try to describe what is going on in 4E. You can't. You just can't.
I like my solution. Don't allow it. There's more then enough paragon paths. Ignore the worst of WotC's blunders and just go on.
Rock Star rolls into a club with his four buddies. None of his buddies are particularly good-looking, but because they're rolling with Rock Star, they manage to hook up with some rather attractive women even so.
I have no trouble imagining this feat in action.
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She dances in the shadows where others fear to tread;
But though her touch may kill you, it's her love that you should dread."
From 10 squares away? To 4 other characters simultaneously? In a language he doesn't even speak? While he's doing something else completely different himself? Is he shouting random gibberish at the top of his lungs like he has tourette syndrome and getting really lucky laying on the honey?
This is a very interesting campaign that you play in, where the characters routinely get into conversations with things that speak languages they don't, plus the diplomat is easily distracted, has Tourette's syndrome, and hits on everything. I would like to know more.
This is a very interesting campaign that you play in, where the characters routinely get into conversations with things that speak languages they don't, plus the diplomat is easily distracted, has Tourette's syndrome, and hits on everything. I would like to know more.
1) Actually it's quite simple to have a language problem. All that has to happen is that someone in the party knows a language that the Bard doesn't, which is quite easy if the Bard doesn't take the language feat.
Especially if your DM chooses what language each nation speaks with a random roll of the die >.<
2) The Bard has a high Charisma and is probably a pretty boy. It's perfectly possible that the player wants to hit on things. I actually played a high Charisma character especially for that purpose.
This is a very interesting campaign that you play in, where the characters routinely get into conversations with things that speak languages they don't, plus the diplomat is easily distracted, has Tourette's syndrome, and hits on everything. I would like to know more.
To be fair, that describes my campaign as well.
I have no problem at all with the power, though. I can think of lots of reasons for it makes sense, both in-game (the bard is tutoring the other PCs in diplomacy during their off time) and out of game (it's much more fun for the group when everyone gets to try and say witty stuff, especially when motivated by a class whose job is making other people perform better.)
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