Druid at wills

mach1.9pants · 25th April 2009, 01:20 PM

OK, I am kinda at a loss. Why do Druids get three at wills and everyone else 2? It is quietly mentioned in PHB2 (rather than THIS CLASS HAS MORE THAN ALL THE OTHERS!) and I had to confirm it by making a PC on the Char Builder.

I don't think it is broken or anything (in fact I think 4E would be better if there were many more choices for at wills and you got to choose 3 or 4.... the grind would feel less 'grindy') but why only Druids? What mechanical or thematic reason is there?

relmskye · 25th April 2009, 01:38 PM

Because druids can only access at most two of those at-wills at any given time. Druids can only use the beast-form at-wills while in beast form, and can only use the others when not.

Druid builds are kind of meant to focus on either the beast form or on spellcasting. Having three at-wills is the only real way to ensure any druid will have two build-related at-wills, while ensuring that they will always have at least one at-will power to use regardless of their form.

Lord Ernie · 25th April 2009, 01:38 PM

Because they have to take at least one at-will from each form (meaning beast and non-beast), and since there are several builds that focus on one form, which would leave them with only one at-will they can actually use.

eryndel · 25th April 2009, 02:30 PM

If they had gone with two at wills like the other classes, they would be left either:

Two at-will that are relavent to their build, but nothing to do in the other form.
One at-will for each form, meaning that in any form that have only one at-will to choose from.

Either way, this is specifically less than any other class. Other classes get two at-wills to add variety to their actions when the encounter powers run dry. It also gives them two different opportunities to fulfill their role.

As ti stands now, the druid kinda needs to choose either working primarily in beast form, or as a ranged caster. In their chosen form, the druid has just as much variety as any other class.

Glyfair · 26th April 2009, 01:18 AM

Thus, human druids are apparently a popular choice. One of the few classes that really draw people to play humans (in fact, most are controllers).

Jools · 26th April 2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glyfair

Thus, human druids are apparently a popular choice. One of the few classes that really draw people to play humans (in fact, most are controllers).

You are right, they don't really draw enough attention to the fact in PHB2.

Garthanos · 26th April 2009, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach1.9pants

I think 4E would be better if there were many more choices for at wills and you got to choose 3 or 4.... the grind would feel less 'grindy')

I came to an identical conclusion (I figured double it to 4 for most races and 6 for humans) ... but I have been waivering and here is a few illustrations of why and its really just a reminder of something in the players handbook.

for the Wizard
Of Course it's Not a Magic Missle, pfah! - Wizards Community

for the Fighter.
Dynamic Visualization (or skinning on the fly)

Combine it with some liberality in the DM's interpretation of the catch 42 rule... gotta love the page order choices for that alone

Oh and humans are one of my favorite races in part because of that at-wll option would I think the same if we upped the number of at-wills?

mach1.9pants · 26th April 2009, 02:39 AM

Thanks, of course it is because of beast form.. d'oh!

The dynamic visualisation stuff makes the fluff nice but doesn't stop the grind IMO. What is needed is more mechanical effects therefore more at wills, it is all very well to say Magic Missile is 'x' or 'y', but I think more varied effects would be better.

However at the rate they are churning out new classes it would be hard to keep the classes different enough with a choice of 4 at wills from a list of 10 or 12!

Garthanos · 26th April 2009, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach1.9pants

Thanks, of course it is because of beast form.. d'oh!

The dynamic visualisation stuff makes the fluff nice but doesn't stop the grind IMO. What is needed is more mechanical effects therefore more at wills, it is all very well to say Magic Missile is 'x' or 'y', but I think more varied effects would be better.

I do agree it doesn't entirely stop me wanting more at-wills.. some of those page 42 tricks include some mechanical variations grant +2 on your next attack or to an allies next attack might feel the most basic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach1.9pants

However at the rate they are churning out new classes it would be hard to keep the classes different enough with a choice of 4 at wills from a list of 10 or 12!

It seems to me it is frequently the class features and yes fluff that do some of the differentiating... (early on didnt people complain they had to be a ranger to be a two weapon fighter ?... talk about buying the fluff not even sure they wanted a defender swap out the nature skill with endurance or something and tadah.)

If a Encounter power was mechanically distinct from the at-wills and you could envision a toned down version it could be a way to make another at-will.

Refreshing Encounters and daily powers rules are the other trick I am cultivating.. they give you another mechanical effect ...speed the combat( because its a powerful effect) and the at-wills are required less... and its flavored to fit the class already but we are certainly straying into houserules now ;-). It doesn't hurt that some reuse seems plausible especially in light of dynamic visualization they dont even seem as much like they are re-doing something.