Class Overview - Powers

[CapnZapp]

One thing I feel is lacking as a DM resource is a overview of class capabilities.

Unless you play a certain class (perhaps more than once, trying different builds) or plow through the powers listings (a very dry read), it's almost impossible to get a grasp on what characters of each class actually can do.

Is the class about forced movement? Area effects? Melee? Ranged? Teleportation? Huge damage? Which conditions? Which defenses? And so on, and so on...

It would really help if each class and tier got a short paragraph describing its signature capabilities.

Not the general fluff you can read in the class intro but a condensed summary of the possible powers at each tier. Something that gives the reader a general idea of what kind of powers he will encounter when adding a PC from that class to play (as a player or as a DM).

Some powers otherwise come almost as a surprise given how the introductory writeup of each class can only cover the most general points. Learning that a class is a "primal striker" can only tell you so much...

[DracoSuave]

The class build paragraphs aren't overview enough?

It's hard to go into greater detail than that seeing as two members of the same class may have drasticly differing methods.

[CapnZapp]

I'm looking for summaries of your specific powers; text that allows you to get an inkling of what kind of stunts your character of a specific class might pull off.

Without actually having to read through all those powers, that is.

Stuff like a rogue getting to attack everyone with a blinding attack; stuff like fighters getting to spend healing surges on a successful attack...

Abilities that aren't "expected".

No need to say these guys do 2W and 3W damage in a hundred different variations.

I would like to understand the tendencies - what different classes get good at doing.

The itemized nature of 4E makes it very difficult to "grok" a class without actually playing it, and as the DM I would like to have at least a basic understanding of what each class does (does well) at each tier...

I'm sure each class can be described using eight or twelve "tendencies" (on a layer lower than the superficial stuff the class intros give you) - at the very least, WotC must have internal documents like this, or they'll end up with all classes doing everything.

If you have played a class throughout an entire tier, I'm hoping you have pretty much the same knowledge... so please share!

[Ulthwithian]

Something like 'Avengers never miss'?

I'm not sure, exactly, what you're looking for here that isn't already answered by the roles that people are in.

Perhaps you want better definitions of the roles?

I mean, I can write, "Infernal Warlocks generally get lots of temporary HPs, set things on fire, and shove things much bigger than themselves around," and that'll be generally true, but that might be taken too far.

Or something like, "Rangers of all stripes generate a lot of attack rolls, so crit-reliant feats are better for them than most other classes."

Is this what you want?

[Nifft]

Originally Posted by DracoSuave

The class build paragraphs aren't overview enough?

Those are flavor-based, rather than a description of how the class plays from a mechanical perspective.

For example, a Warlord might include:

• Your powers can grant bonus melee basic attacks to allies.

... while a Bard could have:

• Many of your powers slide allies.

... and on a Cleric's list you may find:

• Your powers can heal a single ally greatly.

Cheers, -- N

[HarbingerX]

Originally Posted by CapnZapp

I'm looking for summaries of your specific powers; text that allows you to get an inkling of what kind of stunts your character of a specific class might pull off.

Without actually having to read through all those powers, that is.

Stuff like a rogue getting to attack everyone with a blinding attack; stuff like fighters getting to spend healing surges on a successful attack...

Abilities that aren't "expected".

No need to say these guys do 2W and 3W damage in a hundred different variations.

I would like to understand the tendencies - what different classes get good at doing.

The itemized nature of 4E makes it very difficult to "grok" a class without actually playing it, and as the DM I would like to have at least a basic understanding of what each class does (does well) at each tier...

I'm sure each class can be described using eight or twelve "tendencies" (on a layer lower than the superficial stuff the class intros give you) - at the very least, WotC must have internal documents like this, or they'll end up with all classes doing everything.

If you have played a class throughout an entire tier, I'm hoping you have pretty much the same knowledge... so please share!

I've come to realize that with the exception-based design of 4e, the DM 'rule mastery' of previous editions is impossible. The best I can hope for is to make sure I keep on top of the players' character builds and adapt to their choices.

With 16 classes, each with 2 or 4 builds, many paragon paths and epic destinies, you'd have to break each one down to be able to describe the 'flavour' of that build path effectively.

[webrunner]

Fighter:
- Can mark anything with an attack, with no penalty for distance, etc. Even tossing a rock counts.
- Any opportunity attack will stop an enemy cold
Builds:
- Battlerager: Gains temp HP on certain attacks, or when hit in melee, as well as gaining HP. The temp hp gaining ("Invigorating") attacks stack. Some bonuses are dependant on being trained in Endurnace
- One-Handed Weapon Talent: hits more with one handed attacks, useful for defending due to the ability to use a shield
- Two handed weapon talent: hits more with two handed weapons: expect big hits
- Tempest Technique: Uses two weapons

Warden:
- Can mark anything around them every turn with no penalties.
- Depending on choices, they might be able to move marked targets away from their allies, or attack them
- It's hard to make a saving throw stick, as they can save at the beginning of the turn as well.
Builds:
- Earth warden: increases it's own AC
- Wild warden: weakens enemies


Paladin:
- Has Channel Divinity
- Has a special mark which targets one person at a time, and requires the target to be engaged
- Radiant damage
- Can heal, limitedly (such as Lay on hands)
- Builds: Str paladins are limited in their choices, so most people take Cha paladin.

Swordmage:
- Can call their weapon
- Has a special mark, depending on build.
- Lots of teleports
- Builds:
Assault: Teleports
Ensarement: Teleports the *target*
Shielding: Reduces damage

[Rashak Mani]

I feel the same problem as the topic author. If someone says they will build a Druid... I don't really know what that means in terms of power and group synergy... no idea at all. Its many new classes and books making a simple understanding of the classes styles almost impossible.

[TheLordWinter]

I think the style that Webrunner did is really spot on. While you could go into deeper detail, that really nicely covers the basics of what you can expect. I would add the caveat that the paladin's mark damages an enemy, the fighter's provokes basic attacks, to keep it in line with the nice write up of the swordmage's various marks.

[Christopher Robin]

I disagree, actually. Webrunner just told us the class features. What we're looking for is more of a summary of the class's powers.

[CapnZapp]

Here's a feeble attempt at nailing down a few of the classes, chosen entirely by random (or rather, they're the classes the players of my own campaign have chosen ):

Note how I try to not include the things each class intro tells you, as well as the general info the class role and power source tells you. (I hope). It's supposed to tell us about the powers - without having to read through those powers listing (which are an unexpectedly boring read for a rpg book)

Fighter Tendencies (first half of Heroic Tier)
- can't be expected to target anything but AC
- pretty good damage output for a non-Striker
- a sprinkling of powers that trigger healing surges (makes the PC a bit less reliant on external healing)
- generous access to "Reliable" powers - this is a class for you if you hate wasting Dailies

Rogue Tendencies (first half of Heroic Tier)
- limited access to close burst attacks (minion killing)
- targets Reflex on occasion, but fairly dependent on hitting AC
- can move as part of an attack (helps with Stealth and thus with Sneak Attack)*
- have some access to conditions (placed on enemies that is)

Star Warlock Tendencies (first half of Heroic Tier)
- access to powers that target all non-AC defenses, so very flexible in that regard
- problematic in that the class has a noticeable lower to-hit chance: unless the player plugs into the Monster Manual, he will target the "wrong" defense now and then, and that leaves the Warlock in the dust compared to other classes. It seems this problem goes away somewhat on higher levels (like L5); I can only hope it diminishes further...
- Fairly reliant on magic items: the warlock can (and therefore should) have one implement in each hand; taking advantage of rod passive properties even when that implement isn't the "active" one. Especially reliant on magic items that help spread around his Curse - I would have expected powers that did this, but not so far...
- suffers from MAD: my player has a 16 in all of Con/Int/Cha - which was a definite disadvantage at the very first levels (it's starting to get better now when the Star Pact Boon helps more often)
- another difficulty is how the Warlock seems designed to enter melee without any tools to do so. (Curse only works on closest foe; PC gets a bonus for being closest to foe). It took quite some time to realize the Warlock helps out by soaking melee damage and using ranged attacks despite OAs; as well as having close bursts and blasts requiring him to be in the middle of things.
- Thus a noticeably weak class at the very first levels (low attack value; Curse needs magic help too expensive for the first levels; generally encouraged to go where a newbie player won't dare to) and definitely not recommended for beginning players (who hasn't learned the MM by heart) because of a bewildering array of powers to choose from.
- to add to the burden: this class is very dependent on party cooperation. Don't know if it's particular for the Warlock (haven't played a Warlord, for instance) but much more so than the Fighter and Ranger and even Rogue. This Warlock can become significantly better if the party helps taking down the foes he has cursed first; and only then firing away his big Dailies (with a much better chance of hitting). This is also true internally: with powers that help each other out (a power that lowers Will; to set up another power that targets Will).

Ranger (Two-blade) Tendencies (first half Heroic)
- Excellent newbie class (good damage output, simple clean choices)
- Like the fighter, rather reliant on hitting AC
- Powers are simple and to the point; an easy class to "grok" (so far) - most powers just deal more damage in various configurations
- Because this class is perhaps the most straight-forward one, this character is the one most defined by her race: as an Eladrin there's always a teleport coming up.

In general the party works rather well, with a decent damage output. Somewhat of a too big focus on AC, perhaps. The Warlock player have had a rough start. We'll see how it goes.

Do you have experience enough to shape up these "tendencies"? Perhaps for different classes? Perhaps for the Paragon and Epic tiers?

Feel free to combine classes with Paragon Paths or Epic Destinies; but also feel free to discuss them separately (perhaps the better option in the end)

Zapp

*) this is a perfect example of what I'm looking for: important, signature, capabilities that aren't brought up by the general class info - this ability is conferred by a specific power, and only by looking at that power will you realize it's there. In this case I'm talking about something simple and apparent because it's a low-level power (1st level at-will in fact: Deft Strike), but I'm sure there are others with much the same impact in levels higher up... not only for Wizards

[Ulthwithian]

Ah, okay, CapnZapp. Now that I understand what you're looking for...

Fighter - Add 'Gets lots of stance options' in there, as that was something I noticed. IOW, all because you can get a stance doesn't mean you should, because they're mutually exclusive. Useful character-building option.

Since I've played the following...

Paladin - Mix of Melee and (limited) ranged capabilities. Almost all ranged abilities use Charisma. Often targets Will defense. (This is in addition to the above.)

Invoker (Wrathful) - Good damage for a Controller. Very resilient (Chain Mail + Con secondary).

Also, Capn, while what you write is correct in Heroic Tier, I think that focusing strictly on Heroic tier (or the first half of it) may be a little shortsighted.

[Kwalish Kid]

Originally Posted by webrunner

Warden:
- Can mark anything around them every turn with no penalties.
- Depending on choices, they might be able to move marked targets away from their allies, or attack them
- It's hard to make a saving throw stick, as they can save at the beginning of the turn as well.
Builds:
- Earth warden: increases it's own AC
- Wild warden: weakens enemies

And an Earth warden has a boatload of HP. I just started playing a mid-heroid tier Earth warden, and they also have a fair amount of abilities to lock down enemies in a small area. It's amazing.

[CapnZapp]

Originally Posted by Ulthwithian

Also, Capn, while what you write is correct in Heroic Tier, I think that focusing strictly on Heroic tier (or the first half of it) may be a little shortsighted.

Sorry, but I simply haven't played or DM'd more than this yet.

Feel free to add more Paragon (and Epic) insights if you have them!

[chitzk0i]

Originally Posted by CapnZapp

Unless you [...] plow through the powers listings (a very dry read), it's almost impossible to get a grasp on what characters of each class actually can do.

The powers from level one to five fit on two pages. Couldn't you take the time to read just that much? For a home game, it shouldn't be that hard to read through two pages of material for each class you aren't familiar with. If it's in the middle of a game, you could call a five-minute break at the next opportunity and ask the player in question to go over their powers with you.

[Neubert]

chitzk0i:
I believe the idea was that we eventually would have a list for each tier (or each half-tier), so you can see what to expect from a specific class at each power level. It is not that CapnZapp doesn't want to read up on a few powers for each class, it is to give GM's in general (or players for that matter) an overview of what abilities the powers provide a class with (such as being able to heal while attacking or having reliable dailies, in the case of a fighter). I have no clue what fighters can do past level 4 or 5, so I would welcome such a list/guide.

Btw, CapnZapp, I liked the first two better than the second two you wrote up. The last two got a bit long-winded.
But I get what you want to do. Unfortunately I don't have enough experience to add anything.

[Plane Sailing]

Wizards:
- encounter powers often a bit wussy
- sustainable daily powers can define the encounter they are use in.
- in PHB, tends to use powers which do cold or fire damage

[Kwalish Kid]

Originally Posted by chitzk0i

The powers from level one to five fit on two pages. Couldn't you take the time to read just that much? For a home game, it shouldn't be that hard to read through two pages of material for each class you aren't familiar with. If it's in the middle of a game, you could call a five-minute break at the next opportunity and ask the player in question to go over their powers with you.

Indeed, it's about level five that one should read to, since it is with these powers that the classes (and builds, and different weapon fighters, I think) really start to become their own.

[CapnZapp]

Originally Posted by chitzk0i

The powers from level one to five fit on two pages. Couldn't you take the time to read just that much? For a home game, it shouldn't be that hard to read through two pages of material for each class you aren't familiar with. If it's in the middle of a game, you could call a five-minute break at the next opportunity and ask the player in question to go over their powers with you.

Not sure why you feel compelled to write such an nonconstructive post, but let me assure you I am not merely asking about something trivial.

I'm asking about getting a grasp of all the powers of all the classes. (Or rather, the "general tendencies") That's still an immense read if you want to soak all of it up yourself, and an immensely boring one too.

If you don't feel up to helping out, nobody's forcing you, you know...

But I am hoping there are more people out there who are frustrated about knowing next to nothing (except the odd anecdote) about those classes (and tiers!) you haven't played or DM'd yet. I can't be the only DM who'd like more control over my game...

What aces up their sleeve do a Paragon-tier Barbarian have? What kinds of status effects will an Epic-level Druid be expected to dish out? In what ways will the high-level Warlord differ from the high-level Cleric?

All questions you'd normally have to either play through dozens of sessions to get even an inkling of, or you'd have to spend hours reading dry powers listings until your eyes glaze over.

I'm hoping I'm not alone in having a desire for a concise writeup of each class and tier, and you are welcome to help out if you wish!

[CapnZapp]

Originally Posted by Neubert

Btw, CapnZapp, I liked the first two better than the second two you wrote up. The last two got a bit long-winded.
But I get what you want to do. Unfortunately I don't have enough experience to add anything.

No problem, Neubert - thanks for your feedback!

Yes, I guess I got a bit carried away with the Warlock writeup. You're right, any play problems with a specific class should have been noted more succinctly.