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monk preview: another expertise feat - talk about stealth errata!
Focused Expertise: Choose a weapon that you can wield as an implement. You gain a bonus to attack rolls with any implement or weapon power you use
through that weapon.
WOW. What a horrible way to fix an obvious problem: A BETTER FEAT! So basically, they're saying to all the poor paladins and clerics and other folks who use weapons as implements who had to pay a double feat tax: OH WAIT! Never mind, we suddenly realized NOW that this was completely unfair, so here's a fix and pleasedonthateus. However, it's tucked away in the monk PREVIEW which you have to have a subscription for, as opposed to being included in the PH2 which you already bought...
...Yeah. Wow. My confidence in the developers took a huge hit when they released errata for the Expertise feats within a few days to counter an incredibly obvious problem - but it just took an even bigger hit thanks to this stealth errata which fixes another major and quite obvious issue, which by the way you also have to pay for. Extra suck.
That's pretty much it, Nail. It just goes on to explain how the bonus scales and that it doesn't stack with other Expertise feats.
I'm allowing the Expertise feats in my campaigns for now so I don't mind this feat. It keeps classes like swordmages from having to take both Expertise feats or limit their selection of powers to either weapon or implement powers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilbob
So basically, they're saying to all the poor paladins and clerics and other folks who use weapons as implements who had to pay a double feat tax: OH WAIT! Never mind, we suddenly realized NOW that this was completely unfair, so here's a fix and pleasedonthateus.
Don't paladins and clerics just use both weapons and implements? They're still stuck taking both Expertise feats if they want to mix and match weapon and implement powers. There are those magic weapons in AV that can be used as implements though...
WOW. What a horrible way to fix an obvious problem: A BETTER FEAT! So basically, they're saying to all the poor paladins and clerics and other folks who use weapons as implements who had to pay a double feat tax: OH WAIT! Never mind, we suddenly realized NOW that this was completely unfair, so here's a fix and pleasedonthateus. However, it's tucked away in the monk PREVIEW which you have to have a subscription for, as opposed to being included in the PH2 which you already bought...
Nope, this is not the feat for those that both use weapons as weapons and implements as implements, such as e.g. a bard. This is the feat for those that use weapons as implements, such as the monk or the sorcerer, as I read it.
Not sure how weapons that also are implements, such as a songsword, counts in this regard... Are they "weapons that are wielded as implements", or weapons that are wielded as weapons plus implements wielded as implements? The rules definitely could be a lot clearer on this point. Possibly the best way is to see what numbers the character builder spits out on the character sheet, rather than try to understand the rules.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuft
The rules definitely could be a lot clearer on this point. Possibly the best way is to see what numbers the character builder spits out on the character sheet, rather than try to understand the rules.
Oh lord.
...that sends a shudder down my spine. The only way to understand the rules is to let the computer program do it? Ick.
__________________ - Nail
Last edited by Nail: Today....just a few minutes ago
I'm waiting for (riffing off of posters on the WotC boards):
"Everything Expertise"
Benefit: Your character gets +1 to hit with all attacks. At level 15, this increases to +2. At level 25, this increases to +3. This bonus doesn't stack with any other "Expertise" feats you have. If you are level 5 or higher, gain an additional feat.
"Defense Expertise"
Benefit: Your character gets +1 to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. At level 15, this increases to +2. At level 25, this increases to +3. This bonus doesn't stack with the feats Robust Defenses, Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflexes, or Epic Will. If you are level 5 or higher, gain an additional feat.
I'm fine with it. It's simply another choice in building. Do I want more accuracy, defense, speed, HP, surges, initiaive modifiers, damage, superior weapons..........the choice is mine.
I was giving expertise as a free feat to everyone for their primary weapons and implements at 5th level anyway, so the "focused expertise" feat changes nothing for me. I'm using the 5th level free campaign feature "mega expertise of impending doom". Doesn't even require DDI subscription.
__________________ Warning: This post may contain sarcasm.
Is there honestly anyone here that can't read that feat and know what they mean despite the lack of a pointer to which bonuis you should get?
I can't understand your question, but I understand the feat pretty clearly.
You basically pick a weapon you can wield as an implement, and have your expertise bonus apply to both weapon and implement attack powers. Good for Monks and Swordmages (and I guess Paladins with Holy Avengers, and maybe some others I can't think of right now).
__________________ Warning: This post may contain sarcasm.
...Yeah. Wow. My confidence in the developers took a huge hit when they released errata for the Expertise feats within a few days to counter an incredibly obvious problem - but it just took an even bigger hit thanks to this stealth errata which fixes another major and quite obvious issue, which by the way you also have to pay for. Extra suck.
Did they errata the expertise feats already? If so, I missed them.
Did they errata the expertise feats already? If so, I missed them.
Yeah, the errata fixes doubleweapon sillyness where you were getting expertise with axes and spears for twice the benefit with an Urgosh for instance.
Quote:
Addition (3/27/2009)
Add the following sentence to the end of the Benefits section: “Even if a weapon qualifies for this bonus more than once, you can apply the bonus only once when using that weapon.”
One might wonder, if Focused Expertise (Axe) and Weapon Expertise (Spear) would stack or not. Fortunately this bit takes care of it I think
Quote:
This bonus is not cumulative with the one provided by Implement Expertise or Weapon Expertise.
__________________ Warning: This post may contain sarcasm.
I'm waiting for (riffing off of posters on the WotC boards):
"Everything Expertise"
Benefit: Your character gets +1 to hit with all attacks. At level 15, this increases to +2. At level 25, this increases to +3. This bonus doesn't stack with any other "Expertise" feats you have. If you are level 5 or higher, gain an additional feat.
"Defense Expertise"
Benefit: Your character gets +1 to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. At level 15, this increases to +2. At level 25, this increases to +3. This bonus doesn't stack with the feats Robust Defenses, Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflexes, or Epic Will. If you are level 5 or higher, gain an additional feat.
Along with:
"Weakest NAD Expertise"
Benefit: Your character gets +1 to a third ability score on levels 4, 8, 14, 18, 24, and 28. This bonus can only be applied to an ability score if a different ability score that modifies the same non-AC defense has not been modified. For example, the PC could not add +1 to Wisdom with this feat if +1 was already added to Charisma. If you are level 4 or higher, gain an additional feat.
__________________ The first sign of a broken rule is when someone suggests that the way to stop it is by readying an action.
I'm allowing the Expertise feats in my campaigns for now so I don't mind this feat. It keeps classes like swordmages from having to take both Expertise feats or limit their selection of powers to either weapon or implement powers.
So far the only character that is stated to use this new feat is the Centered Breath Monk, so no joy for Swordmages or Warlocks who use longswords
As some have pointed out, my original statement was partially in error: this does not help the poor paladin or cleric, who use different items for implements and weapons, but it is more for sorcs, swordmages, wizards, and the like, who would use one item as both. (And now, the monk, apparently.)
At this point I honestly expect the Divine Power book to include another Expertise feat to help the poor divine classes out. It also means all the folks who have implemented some sort of house rule to fix this horrid feat(s) are even more justified in ignoring it and implementing their house rule.
It really is hard to believe how poorly this math fix has been implemented across the board. This stealth errata, combined with the quick errata when the feat came out, plus the massive grumbling across various message boards pretty much seals the fact that the devs were not fully aware of what they were doing.
So far the only character that is stated to use this new feat is the Centered Breath Monk, so no joy for Swordmages or Warlocks who use longswords
I don't see why they couldn't use it. I mean, it's in Dragon magazine, "everything is core" (also stated explicitly in the same magazine), and as of May 24(?) this should be available in the character builder. There are no prereqs.
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