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So one of my players had to bail out, meaning the party has lost a two-weapon ranger. The players want to keep their PCs, but are okay with them being a little rearranged so they can be optimized. All were 3rd level, but I'm now bumping them to 4th to make up for a lost PC.
I tried my hand at some optimization, which saw the dragonborn trade axe + light shield for a halberd; the tiefling traded some PHB powers for Arcane Power ones and traded some feats for the tiefling warlock feats in AP; and the human would trade the single-handed mastery for Tempest Technique and dual-wield a spiked shield and a broadsword (which becomes off-hand with the Two-Blade Warrior feat). I'm not 100% sure of these changes, and I'm open to suggestions.
Aria: needs a melee attack. I recommend she take Reaper's Touch (from Dragon 372). Its only effect relevant to her is to allow her to use Eldritch Blast as a melee basic attack (with range = melee touch). Now the Warlord gets two buddies to whom he can grant extra attacks, and the Warlock isn't utterly hosed if she's trapped in melee range.
Cheers, -- N
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Aria: needs a melee attack. I recommend she take Reaper's Touch (from Dragon 372). Its only effect relevant to her is to allow her to use Eldritch Blast as a melee basic attack (with range = melee touch). Now the Warlord gets two buddies to whom he can grant extra attacks, and the Warlock isn't utterly hosed if she's trapped in melee range.
Cheers, -- N
I actually picked that up, plus that feat that lets a tiefling warlock curse an opponent that hits her as a free action.
Question: what is better - to have the warlord take Bravura Spirit, Restful Healing, etc, or take Sorcerer multiclass to add some close blasts to his arsenal (making him more striker-ish)?
Here are the summaries of how the PCs look so far:
the human would trade the single-handed mastery for Tempest Technique and dual-wield a spiked shield and a broadsword (which becomes off-hand with the Two-Blade Warrior feat). I'm not 100% sure of these changes, and I'm open to suggestions.
I don't have my books with me but I'm pretty sure the Two-Bladed Warrior feat lets you wield a one handed weapon in your off hand, not change one handed weapons into off hand weapons for him. So it wouldn't qualify for the tempests bonus damage. Your fighter may want to simply pick up a double weapon from AV. They really are the most optimized choice for tempests.
A more detailed look at their powers may help us figure out changes that would be helpful.
I don't have my books with me but I'm pretty sure the Two-Bladed Warrior feat lets you wield a one handed weapon in your off hand, not change one handed weapons into off hand weapons for him. So it wouldn't qualify for the tempests bonus damage.
Agree. However, I disagree about the double weapon, because IMHO the Fighter should have a Heavy Thrown weapon as his main weapon, because everyone should be able to contribute at melee and range (even if they all specialize heavily in one or the other).
Also, having a shield allows a Fighter in specific to access Tide of Iron, which is probably my favorite Fighter power for defending squishy team mates.
Cheers, -- N
__________________
Brevity is the soul of wit, so trim your sig or look dumb.
I don't have my books with me but I'm pretty sure the Two-Bladed Warrior feat lets you wield a one handed weapon in your off hand, not change one handed weapons into off hand weapons for him. So it wouldn't qualify for the tempests bonus damage. Your fighter may want to simply pick up a double weapon from AV. They really are the most optimized choice for tempests.
A more detailed look at their powers may help us figure out changes that would be helpful.
The Fighter will probably remain sword-n-board. The broadsword could be replaced with a scimitar or some other weapon, but the spiked shield really helps the AC, which is a necessity since she dropped from scale to chainmail (and the shield already dropped from heavy to light spiked).
Aside from these minor requirements (race/class), suggest away!
Agree. However, I disagree about the double weapon, because IMHO the Fighter should have a Heavy Thrown weapon as his main weapon, because everyone should be able to contribute at melee and range (even if they all specialize heavily in one or the other).
Also, having a shield allows a Fighter in specific to access Tide of Iron, which is probably my favorite Fighter power for defending squishy team mates.
Cheers, -- N
Yeah, the Fighter's player really likes Tide of Iron. I'm trying to make the character different from the Paladin she's already playing in another game (hence broadsword instead of longsword).
By taking Sweeping Blow and Dire Wolverine Strike, the Fighter could conceivably move amidst enemies, lay down a close burst 1 and spend an action point to get another close burst 1 (and if she opts to use "Bravura!", she might even get yet another basic attack).
When suggesting powers for the PCs, I ended up making sure each had at least one area attack to make up for the lack of a controller. Between dragon breath, Sweeping Blow, Dire Wolverine Strike and Eldritch Rain, I think they can clear up a battlefield rather quickly, right?
The purely Martial version of the dragonborn warlord replaces Arcane Prodigy + Novice Power with Improved Inspiring Word + Long Jumper (to mimic wing-aided leaps, which the character could do before... I toyed with taking Scale Armor, though). So feel free to comment on either.
I actually liked Inspiring Warlord better than Bravura last I looked (Inspired Belligerence, Warlord Strike, etc)... also Lead the Attack with no Int isn't very impressive.
I'm currently laying a character in a three PC party right now, so maybe I can help a bit. I'm not big into Character Optimization though.
You're missing a Controller, which luckily is the easiest one to be missing. I would look at each character and find powers that will allow them to target more than one enemy. Putting status effects on enemies is nice, but should be secondary; I think they'd be much better off focusing on doing straight damage. I'm not going to offer specific suggestions - honestly, I'm not as familiar with the classes as I would need to be to give advice. For Fighter I'd definitely recommend Rain of Blows, since you can target two different enemies with it.
I'm currently laying a character in a three PC party right now
IYKWIM(AITYD).
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightPhoenix
You're missing a Controller, which luckily is the easiest one to be missing. I would look at each character and find powers that will allow them to target more than one enemy. Putting status effects on enemies is nice, but should be secondary; I think they'd be much better off focusing on doing straight damage.
Disagree here. Effects like pushing, stunning, etc. can be real tide-turners.
I think you should focus on flexibility. Each PC should be able to:
- Handle melee or range
- Target multiple foes or focus fire on one big foe
- Take advantage of every boost his allies can grant
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightPhoenix
For Fighter I'd definitely recommend Rain of Blows, since you can target two different enemies with it.
... or you can target the same enemy multiple times. It's a great Exploit: powerful yet flexible. Seconded.
Cheers, -- N
__________________
Brevity is the soul of wit, so trim your sig or look dumb.
For reference, my party is a Fighter, a Cleric, and a Wizard (me). So we're without a Striker, which is rough when we fight solos. We barely survived Irontooth, for example. While we certainly can dish out damage, we don't worry about it as much as keeping control of the battlefield - because that's what we excel at. It helps that the Fighter is a bit of a Striker, and I'm playing a wand Wizard which is also a bit of a Striker.
Quote:
Disagree here. Effects like pushing, stunning, etc. can be real tide-turners.
I think you should focus on flexibility. Each PC should be able to:
- Handle melee or range
- Target multiple foes or focus fire on one big foe
- Take advantage of every boost his allies can grant
I agree on the third point. I was originally going to suggest the Feylock not bother with a melee basic attack, but to fully utilize the Warlord's abilities you really need it. Synergy is important.
However, I think it's a mistake to focus too strongly on flexibility. In a three person party, every character needs to be good at what they do, since there's no backup. You're never going to be able to control as well as a Controller, so I think it's better not to try. That's not to say I disagree on, for example, the Fighter taking Tide of Iron - I'd certainly take it (and our Fighter loves it). However, I think Cleave is a much more useful ability in this situation, since it's basically a free minion kill.
I think most of the onus of being controller-like is on the Feylock. The Feylock's secondary role seems to be that of a Controller, so it makes sense to focus it there. The Fighter should focus on being a Defender, and the Warlord should focus on being a Leader.
However, I think it's a mistake to focus too strongly on flexibility. In a three person party, every character needs to be good at what they do, since there's no backup. You're never going to be able to control as well as a Controller, so I think it's better not to try. That's not to say I disagree on, for example, the Fighter taking Tide of Iron - I'd certainly take it (and our Fighter loves it). However, I think Cleave is a much more useful ability in this situation, since it's basically a free minion kill.
I think most of the onus of being controller-like is on the Feylock. The Feylock's secondary role seems to be that of a Controller, so it makes sense to focus it there. The Fighter should focus on being a Defender, and the Warlord should focus on being a Leader.
Like I said upthread:
Quote:
When suggesting powers for the PCs, I ended up making sure each had at least one area attack to make up for the lack of a controller. Between dragon breath, Sweeping Blow, Dire Wolverine Strike and Eldritch Rain, I think they can clear up a battlefield rather quickly, right?
As for the Cleave vs. Tide of Iron: the Fighter has both. And I'll probably recommend she takes the fighting style feat that gives her a benefit when she uses Cleave with only one target.
I actually liked Inspiring Warlord better than Bravura last I looked (Inspired Belligerence, Warlord Strike, etc)... also Lead the Attack with no Int isn't very impressive.
I'll have to look into Lead The Attack. But the dragonborn was a Inspiring one before switching to Bravura, which the entire group really likes. The gambling aspect of "Bravura!" added more excitement to the gameplay.
Yeah, if you like the gambling feature then stick with it - I'm less enthused by the inspiring's AP bonus, but I just like a few of the other benefits (damage spikes, specifically) is all.
I looked into Lead the Attack, and it seems Bastion of Defense gets the cake. Both are 3[W] powers, so it's just a matter of trading attack for defense.
For all the characters, think about dropping one stat to 8 and using those points elsewhere.
For the Warlord, you're going to get much more mileage out of something like Bastion of Defense.
As for the Fighter, I'd actually suggest toughening up rather than going for more damage. You want someone who not only attracts attacks but can also take them, if you want to keep the heat off the rest of the party.
Rather than Tempest, how about a Battlerager build like this:
Final ability scores:
Str 19, Con 14, Dex 15, Int10, Wis 13, Cha 8
Starting scores:
Str 16, Con 14, Dex 14, Int 10, Wise 13, Cha 8
Then take Battlerager, Three-Head Flail, Heavy Shield+Scale, and Shield Push.
This lets you have Rain of Blows, 2 temp hp on hits in combat, a high AC, and the ability to push opponents on combat challenge, often negating their attacks. The character is tough enough that it won't go down easily, but not so tough that the enemies are totally discouraged from attacking. Plus when they do turn elsewhere, Shield Push causes them trouble. It's a good halfway house between tough, sticky and strikerish.
If we didn't have a Battlerager in another party we all play in, I'd have suggested that. But I want to avoid repetition, and the micromanaging of hp for the Battlerager is something the player will never be able to do (we're two couples, and between the four of us we have to look after 3 kids).
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