How about a Fighter "Shield Talent"?

Prestidigitalis · 8th June 2009, 04:29 PM

What do you think of an Fighter feature called "Shield Talent" as an alternative to the weapon talents, BRV and Tempest.

The talent itself could be something like "Add +1 to AC and Ref bonus from shields." New feats could add options just for Shield Talent fighters, and some powers could be enhanced by it.

So: Good idea? Balanced? Would you take it over the alternatives? Should WotC implement it? Why didn't WotC already implement it?

KarinsDad · 8th June 2009, 05:30 PM

Weapon talents are limited, one handed or two handed, but not both.

Shield talents already exist in the form of Shield Specialization and Shield Defense. Is a class feature needed?

spinmd · 8th June 2009, 05:43 PM

Personally, as a person who plays a fighter (one-handed weapon talent) in a bi-weekly campaign, a "shield talent" path doesn't grab me, as it seems a primarily defensive build. I guess the feat add-ons could make it more offensive or exciting, but I don't think I would take it over the existing options.

YMMV

Prestidigitalis · 8th June 2009, 07:37 PM

KarinsDad: But couldn't you say the same thing for the weapon talents, relative to Weapon Expertise?

What it comes down to, I guess, is whether anyone would like to see a Fighter feature that emphasizes defense instead of offense.

KarinsDad · 8th June 2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prestidigitalis

KarinsDad: But couldn't you say the same thing for the weapon talents, relative to Weapon Expertise?

Weapon Expertise is arguably a math bug fix that exists for to hits, but not for AC. Ditto for Reflex and Epic defense feats.

I seriously think that these feats would not exist if the math wasn't horked. I don't think one can seriously use these as a counter example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prestidigitalis

What it comes down to, I guess, is whether anyone would like to see a Fighter feature that emphasizes defense instead of offense.

We already have that. It's called Battlerage Vigor. General consensus is that it is a much stronger defensive Fighter than Weapon Talent is as an offensive Fighter.

The other point about offense is that pre-PHB II, offense was tough to get. It was difficult to find a constant +1 to hit anywhere.

Defense was slightly easier to find. A Fighter could bump up to Plate armor and/or he could specialize in either armor or shield and/or he could specialize in a Paragon Path like Pit Fighter.

So the real question comes down to, should there be yet another way to boost defense when multiple ways already exist? At what point do we add too many defenses and the monsters have too low a chance to hit?

Prestidigitalis · 8th June 2009, 08:58 PM

KarinsDad: That's a reasonable position. It just suddenly occurred to me that a Shield Talent option was an obvious possibility but one I had never seen suggested anywhere, and I figured I'd see what people thought about it.

Sometimes you can learn about what makes "good rules" by thinking about why a "bad rule" is bad.

Saeviomagy · 9th June 2009, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarinsDad

We already have that. It's called Battlerage Vigor. General consensus is that it is a much stronger defensive Fighter than Weapon Talent is as an offensive Fighter.

Unfortunately it's stronger to the point where I personally believe that letting it in the game can only be bad for the game, making it a rather worthless option.

That said: Fighters are pretty solid, defensive-wise. I don't actually think they need a "shield specialisation": wielding a shield pretty much makes you a defensive fighter all on it's own.