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I think a big part of the problem is that the ritual can last forever. There are alot of rituals now with permanent effects and there is no way to dispel them. They need to add a ritual that can dispel other rituals.
I myself find nothing wrong with an embodiment of Physical Destruction, being impeded by an Extra Physical, supernatural force like magic.
Neither do I, when the power of the magic can be sensibly more powerful than the physical attacker (thus a wall made out of "normal" magic can be about as strong as 3 ft stone walls normally are.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by satori01
Honestly Magic Circle gives a pretty compelling game set up for say a 12th level encounter with the Tarrasque.
Any 12th lvl group with a ritual caster = most likely not a tpk (considering its colossal and makes a lot of noise you could probably make a magic circle before it notices you)
Any 12th lvl group without a ritual caster = most likely tpk
Quote:
Originally Posted by satori01
Let us also face that the Tarrasque and Orcus are not going to appear on any wandering monster table of 4e.....Paragon level encounter with 30 level creatures, really should not have battle as normal on the agenda, as TPK will be the only result.
Except when you have a Ritual caster.
And Im sorry but this is not a personal problem. The idea of a 12th level party meeting an awake tarrasque on thier own has always, since the introduction of the monster meant tpk. Now a simple ritual can remove the threat entirely?
Since the duration is "Until Broken" I'd rule that water like rain or some just splashing on the ground from a jug wouldn't. If it did it would prevent a lot of traditional fantasy uses of this type of magic. I'd also rule that anything directly thrown or launched from a qualifying type cannot effect it.
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Neither do I, when the power of the magic can be sensibly more powerful than the physical attacker (thus a wall made out of "normal" magic can be about as strong as 3 ft stone walls normally are.)
It takes 1 hour to put up the barrier. It's not as if this is something you can create in combat. It's just an additional tool for parties to use to solve problems and cause more interesting encounters.
If a low level party knows Orcus or the Tarrasque are coming an hour or more ahead of time they can evacuate or move whatever they're trying to protect, they could possibly mislead or redirect these enemies. It's not as if it could be used to defeat an enemy.
For this spell to realistically cover any sized town (lets say a square mile) it would take about 168 hours including the original hour casting time. Thats about a week. I'd say that'd be enough time to create other reasonable defenses without such an glaring flaw.
This ritual also gives a few excellent combat scenerio opportunities.
A party manages to put a circle of protection around the town, but the aberrant/elemental/fey/immortal/natural/shadow boss creatures have minions of a different type. You must fight off the minions as they try to run by in waves and not let any get through to break the circle while also protecting yourself from a few of the evil overlord boss types.
Enemies try to let out super-creature from magic circle prison. There's difficult terrain to get to it and there are multiple magic circles up so they have to take a standard action to remove each one. You must fight them off before they get through.
Last edited by FrozenChrono; 10th June 2009 at 06:40 AM..
I fully understand the limitations and possible interpretations of the ritual. But just because it can be an effective story telling tool does not change the fact that it is way more powerful raw than any spell or exploit.
The mere fact that it can end or prevent without fail, an encounter with a monster more than double your level. And that any monster that isnt a surprise and doesn't have any friends that aren't different of a different origin can be effectively made useless by this spell.
Yes it has limitations. I get that. But:
A level 8 spell should not be able to prevent a tarrasque from entering an area. End o' story in my book. It should absoloutley have a limiting factor that would make a tarrasque be able to destroy it eventually or with great force or with great damage to itself. Total prevention is just too much imo.
I would say that it takes a conscious act by an intelligent creature to break a Circle.
It's power is somewhat limited by the fact that you're eventually going to have to leave the circle, or you'd better have an Everlasting Provisions along. There's not a whole lot of fun to be had when adventuring as "The Boy in the Plastic Bubble."
However, I think the designers explicitly said that was their intent (though I also can't confirm this).
There was discussion about this around the time the pit fiend was shown in the Ampersand article (1/25/08). I am not up on my enworld dues so can't search well... but I think those are the threads you should be looking for. The comments went along the lines that any intelligent NPC has access to any ritual of its level or lower that they need so they can do whatever the DM needs them to do.
As for tarrasque, I think it shows how well this spell works just the way it is. The spell does NOT stop the beast. In no meaningful way does it affect the tarrasque from doing what it wants to do, destroying random things. Just because it is destroying the village next door does not mean it was ‘stopped’. Does it save a small village or temple or some other site from being immediately destroyed? Sure, but the tarrasque could care less. It will get back to it when the rest of the universe is fixed.
Some of you are giving the tarrasque motivations it simply does not have.
Some of you are giving the tarrasque motivations it simply does not have.
I was thinking that it might 'accidentally' do something that would ultimately effect the contents of the circle; start a landslide, forest fire, dam a river and flood an area...... Things that conscious will doesn't pertain to, that have a ripple effect.
Godzilla isn't crushing people. He knocks over buildings that just happen to have people under them.
The question of water came up in my game today, would splashing water on the runes erase the barrier?
If the circle is drawn with something water soluble and the water is splashed on the circle by a creature type not affected by the circle it would. If the water is splashed on the circle by a creature affected by the circle it wouldn't, even if the circle is drawn with something that's normally water soluble.
Well, a level 8 Ritual can undo the entirety of nasty effects of a Terrasque on any living creature from level 1 - 30 so, really, it's not as wildly incongruous as you might think.
Congruousness does not denote reasonableness. Rituals in general can be extremely overpowered imo. They do things no power/feat/skill/item would ever be able to do, and they solve many encounters that would otherwise be impossible.
Rituals are not interesting, this is not cool story openers, they are just overpowered messes.
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