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Its not spoken of in either way. So for you to say that the caster is trapped inside is just as interpreted as me saying the caster isnt.
Common sense dictates a few things here.
The flavor text says:
"The circle of symbols scratched into the ground glows and
sparks briefly as the demon tests the boundary. 'This will
not save you for long!' it hisses."
This means that there are two possibilities in the scenario provided within this text.
1. You have put a circle around the demon
2. You have put a circle around yourself and a demon is outside the barrier.
I see 2 as more plausible.
Also the phrase "enter or pass" would suggest that it only has a problem with entering the circle. It would say "enter or exit" if it truly was meant to prohibit exiting the circle.
Since it makes no mention of prohibiting the caster (which is a horrible oversight in text if true) then we could look to other rituals for precedence of your belief.
But no there are no instances of rituals being double edged swords like this.
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In addition to all this. All of you saying "well its an interesting possibility for pcs to use it." What about the idea that an NPC could use it.
Say an Wizard wants to become a godlike being (fairly common epic storyline) Many times there is a ritual that must be stopped in order for his plan to be thwarted. But oh guess not he has the ritual magic circle. I can think of many many storylines I've read about and played (and some in my future plans as DM) that could easily be ruined by this ritual.
Its not spoken of in either way. So for you to say that the caster is trapped inside is just as interpreted as me saying the caster isnt.
It is clearly spelled out.
"An affected creature whose level is lower than your Arcana check result minus 10 cannot pass through the circle"
So if your a human and create a magic circle around yourself that works either against creature with natural origin or even against all origins, you're SOL since you are an affected creature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipguarder
I see 2 as more plausible.
And if he just created a circle against creature with the elemental origin he's fine. If he create a circle against elemental and natural creatures, he's an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipguarder
Also the phrase "enter or pass" would suggest that it only has a problem with entering the circle. It would say "enter or exit" if it truly was meant to prohibit exiting the circle.
You can't exit without passing. The "enter" is indeed redundant.
Your position would make a magic circle omitting all origins nigh unusable.
It could be prison or protecting something important. But you're right that it better should not include something you might want to get of the circle again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipguarder
It also seems fairly ridiculous just in and of itself.
I agree that the thought of an apprentice trapping himself in his own circle is funny while an archmage doing the same is ridiculous.
I am also not arguing that the risk of the caster trapping himself was intended, but the way the RAW are written this it what happens. Otherwise they should have included an "other than the caster" somewhere which they either forgot to do or never wanted to do.
It also seems fairly ridiculous just in and of itself.
Just take a dungeon hallway, put a circle in the hallway, finishing it as you are on the outside. Now no one can cross that hallway, and you fortify the other side with all of your big guns.
Its motivation is irrelevant. This spell takes away from the fear that mid paragon pcs should have over meeting a tarrasque.
So what you are saying is that because of that spell I can use the tarrasque in my mid level games? That rocks! Now its not totally wasted space in the MM.
So what you are saying is that because of that spell I can use the tarrasque in my mid level games? That rocks! Now its not totally wasted space in the MM.
Now every time that someone finds a sleeping Tarrasque it'll be curled up around a Magic Circle that contains dessicated skeletons, a pile of dried excrement, and Everlasting Provisions.
Or hey if you ever find a sleeping tarrasque you may as well just spend 250g and a few hours and create a circle nobody could ever break it out of.
Theres that pesky tarrasque taken care of.... forever..... no chance of it ever harming anyone again...
The ridiculously powerful sealed evil in a can has to get sealed in there somehow. And if you are capable of killing the thing, it never needs to be sealed in the first place. Just look at how common of a trope this is in fantasy literature and that right there should be enough of a motivation to let a group of incredibly lucky low level characters seal away something they can't face in combat.
The ridiculously powerful sealed evil in a can has to get sealed in there somehow. And if you are capable of killing the thing, it never needs to be sealed in the first place. Just look at how common of a trope this is in fantasy literature and that right there should be enough of a motivation to let a group of incredibly lucky low level characters seal away something they can't face in combat.
Im sorry, I suppose I just have this thing called logic that seems to think that if the Tarrasque was this easy to trap forever, he wouldn't even be a threat.
But yeah whatever lets have some heroic level guys remove the threat of the Tarrasque forever, sure whatever.
Im sorry, I suppose I just have this thing called logic that seems to think that if the Tarrasque was this easy to trap forever, he wouldn't even be a threat.
It's only easy if you get her to hold still for ~1.5 hours you need to cast the circle around her.
And then the threat will be the earthquake or other disaster breaking the circle and release the sealed evil. As has been said, that's a pretty common fantasy scenario.
From what I've heard the Tarrasque only wakes up about once every 12 months. So getting a sleeping one to wake up while you were completing the ritual would be extremely unlucky.
Also Im not trying to say the ritual is unfixable, but Raw its just too powerful. And by raw it does not state that environmental effects would ruin the circle.
From what I've heard the Tarrasque only wakes up about once every 12 months. So getting a sleeping one to wake up while you were completing the ritual would be extremely unlucky.
Also Im not trying to say the ritual is unfixable, but Raw its just too powerful. And by raw it does not state that environmental effects would ruin the circle.
Mr. T just wakes up and burrows under them. Why all the bother? Nothing in the spell says it extends down, or even up past 5'.
And by raw it does not state that environmental effects would ruin the circle.
It says it lasts until the circle is broken, then goes on to say that affected creatures cannot break the circle. It says nothing about the circle being immune to any other sort of disruption, so logically it isn't.
Also, you're overlooking the fact that the Tarrasque sleeps in the world's core. If your party of 5th-level adventurers have the resources to:
1) Dig a hole about 4,000 miles deep.
2) Survive the monstrous heat and toxic gasses they discover down there.
3) Find the Tarrasque's resting spot, assuming it isn't simply mystically diffused throughout the iron and nickel of the inner core.
4) Devise a means to permanently inscribe runes on molten freaking rock.
5) Cast the magic circle ritual.
Then yeah, I think they deserve to bind the Tarrasque away until the next earthquake.
__________________ ++++++++++++
Travis Stout
"An absolute monarchy is one in which the sovereign does as he pleases so long as he pleases the assassins."
--Ambrose Bierce
Or hey if you ever find a sleeping tarrasque you may as well just spend 250g and a few hours and create a circle nobody could ever break it out of.
Theres that pesky tarrasque taken care of.... forever..... no chance of it ever harming anyone again...
This is awesome. It's a great story opener. Maybe there's an item sealed with the Tarrasque that the adventurers need, maybe someone stumbles upon it and lets it out not knowing what it is? Magic circle has it's flaws, this is not one of them. The possibility of stumbling upon a sleeping Tarrasque at level 5 is completely at the DM's digression, as is any other situation that could create an overpowered use of this ritual.
It's a lot like push and pulls. They become drastically more powerful when there is a 1000 ft cliff 2 squares away, but that kind of terrain is completely up to the DM.
Most situations where magic circle could be used to "break the game" are preventable by logic.
Towns don't have circles around them because a block everything circle would isolate them and prevent trade/contact with the outside world. If they have a circle that targets one type of creature it becomes much easier to get around.
Adventurers could use it to protect themselves overnight in a dangerous area, but they can never leave the place they've made the circle.
The only plot I really see this ritual preventing is someone performing another ritual to end the world/summon big bad/turn into giant snake inside the magic circle. This is also easily preventable. One of the stipulations on this new ritual is that it can't be cast inside a magic circle. Problem solved. You can also use the ritual to force your party to watch the big bad being summoned/created and being unable to do anything about it. If done right it could be an epic build up.
Any 12th lvl group with a ritual caster = most likely not a tpk (considering its colossal and makes a lot of noise you could probably make a magic circle before it notices you)
Any 12th lvl group without a ritual caster = most likely tpk
Except when you have a Ritual caster.
And Im sorry but this is not a personal problem. The idea of a 12th level party meeting an awake tarrasque on thier own has always, since the introduction of the monster meant tpk. Now a simple ritual can remove the threat entirely?
I honestly don't see how this is ok.
Actually, it rarely meant a TPK. In prior editions, they would simply teleport/airwalk/fly away at that level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipguarder
Its motivation is irrelevant. This spell takes away from the fear that mid paragon pcs should have over meeting a tarrasque.
If the tarrasque is within sight (at which point the fear should probably kick in), it's doubtful that they will have the time to cast the ritual.
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