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I'm curious to know how people use magic circle in the "metaplot" of their game.
I have found magic circle to be the most powerful ritual my party has...from a scale of its power compared to its level. With an easy arcana check, my party can ensure that no creature can bypass the circle (including themselves by the strict reading of the ritual) nor can creatures attack through it. Its the ultimate form of protection.
3e has your permanent walls of force in the like, but nothing like magic circle for its low level availability.
In my game I've allowed the dispel magic power to erase magic circle for some passability. I've also set up some circles that were low enough level that my party could pass them without damage.
However, when I think about it, honestly in a world where lots of classes can learn rituals, I would think this ritual should be everywhere, binding against undead if nothing else, or perhaps shadow creatures and the like. For example, a city with some wizards could easily make their borders completely immune from an attack by shadow creatures or undead in literally a day or twos time.
However, there is a way to beat that. An undead army could have a few living people whose soul (hehe soul) job is to run at the circle, and break it. So there are good reasons that wouldn't work.
This is what I'm curious to hear more about, what tricks do you use so that ritual has its proper power but isn't seen in every shop and corner of the world.
This ritual hasn't come up in my game yet, but I think the fact that it could affect the PCs as well (by the strict reading), and the fact that you have specific origins that you can pick from (so you couldn't protect against undead which have multiple origins, unless you chose ALL), would mean that it wouldn't be a big deal in my game.
I guess I will see once my party decides to master the ritual.
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In my game I've allowed the dispel magic power to erase magic circle for some passability. I've also set up some circles that were low enough level that my party could pass them without damage.
Aid another might be another way of doing it. Enough peons working together could get their level high enough to go through. As a house rule obviously.
Also it's a circle... flying over or burrowing under could be options if your PCs keep insisting on using it. Natural disasters like a tree falling over and obscuring it, etc. etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalker0
However, when I think about it, honestly in a world where lots of classes can learn rituals, I would think this ritual should be everywhere, binding against undead if nothing else, or perhaps shadow creatures and the like. For example, a city with some wizards could easily make their borders completely immune from an attack by shadow creatures or undead in literally a day or twos time.
Different edition. Heroes as staggeringly powerful as PCs are extremely rare.
Cost and effectiveness are the typical limiting factors. At low levels that 100gp per casting is going to hurt. I've got books full of rituals, but have to be very careful when and how I use them because of the costs involved.
It takes an hour to cast the ritual, after taking one minute per square that it includes. It isn't very often that you get to choose your battleground in this game.
Then there's the "check-10" rider. You had better have pretty good skill in Arcana. Most of the fights that we've had involved creatures that were 2, 3, or 4 levels higher than us. My character has a massive Arcana skill, but that is balanced by my remarkable consistently bad rolling. Don't let the caster take 10.
(Casting "Undead Ward" has 1/3 the cost and the same effect )
Last edited by Ryujin; 8th June 2009 at 07:58 PM..
If you max out arcana, and have 4 people help you who all roll above 10 can you create a magic circle that would inhibit orcus from entering at lvl 30?
This is a good ritual, but I can think of some reasons its not the best thing ever.
For starters, its still 100gp. Chump change for an adventurer, but a lot of money by anyone else's measure.
Also, time is a factor. Its not something you can just whip up. An hour of regular ritual time, plus a minute per square. For small circles, that's not bad, but it must be a circle. Assuming your town fits in roughly a football field, that'd be about 26.5 hours of set up. Doable, but still three days' work, assuming about 8 hours at a shot.
Another big one is that if you're in the circle, being protected from something outside the circle, you just put yourself in a siege. That undead army doesn't need to break the circle. They have all the time in the world to wait for you to get hungry. Demons or other evil creatures would probably just start executing or torturing innocents until you decided to come out.
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If you max out arcana, and have 4 people help you who all roll above 10 can you create a magic circle that would inhibit orcus from entering at lvl 30?
A 10th level wizard with some 4 assistants and a great roll could make the Anti Orcus barrier.
If you max out arcana, and have 4 people help you who all roll above 10 can you create a magic circle that would inhibit orcus from entering at lvl 30?
You can do it much, much earlier than level 30, even while taking the -10 penalty to make sure that no one else can let Orcus in/out you can still do it much, much earlier than level 30. If you just moderately try to get a good arcana check, at level 30 you don't even need to roll to create a circle (including -10 penalty) to work against the level 35 gods. Incidently my swordmage will end up with +44 arcana at level 30 (automatically being able to create cricles against lvl 35 gods and all their servants by taking -10) and that's with only moderately trying to max the check, otherwise +50 would be easily possible.
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Originally Posted by Regicide
Unless you can block Orcus from being able to teleport, the circle doesn't do a whole lot.
While the rules are badly written and thus very vague, most people agree that you can't fly, burry or teleporr through a circle. It's the most archetype of use to capture/bar creatures that can typically teleport (e.g. outsiders) in such circles.
Last edited by Mirtek; 9th June 2009 at 08:28 AM..
While the rules are badly written and thus very vague, most people agree that you can't fly, burry or teleporr through a circle. It's the most archetype of use to capture/bar creatures that can typically teleport (e.g. outsiders) in such circles.
Badly written and vague is par for the course I've found, with many rules haveing multiple paragraphs with each stating something different. But blocking teleportation is what Forbiddance does, not Magic Circle.
Badly written and vague is par for the course I've found, with many rules having multiple paragraphs with each stating something different. But blocking teleportation is what Forbiddance does, not Magic Circle.
Its a good point, and considering that teleportation does not require line of effect, just line of sight, I would think you could teleport past a magic circle. But yeah the tarrasque is hosed.
If you choose the "block all" or block type "natural" (or "fey" for the more sylvan PCs), doesn't that also block the caster and his allies? The spell makes no provisions for friend or foe as far as I can see.
But blocking teleportation is what Forbiddance does, not Magic Circle.
Forbiddance blocks teleportation into the protected area, you can still teleport out of the protected area.
A magic circle blocks attempts to "pass through the circle" which should encompass all kinds of possible movement otherwise the circle is pretty useless. So you can teleport neither into the circle nor out of the circle, but if you're bored you can teleport within the circle as much as you want as long as you don't cross the boundary.
I think magic circle's open up massive role playing options. It let's your level 30 characters be the one's who seal away orcus or any other demon prince/god/goddess. That's what epic levels are for. As for brokenness these circles are so easy to break a level 1 minion could do it in one standard action. A minion of a different type could easily free their master, or break the circle around the city if that's what the story calls for.
The cost is definantly a limiting factor. For a city of any size to use it it would be at least as expensive as traditional defenses, and far easier to destroy.
A magic circle blocks attempts to "pass through the circle" which should encompass all kinds of possible movement otherwise the circle is pretty useless.
Hardly useless. It is pretty sick for blocking exits or making safe camp points as most monsters can't teleport.
Teleport doesn't "pass through", there is no line of effect. Likewise True Portal and Plane Shift rituals will work, True Portal since it's a teleport and Plane Shift since you're coming in from another plane. All of which can be blocked with Forbiddance.
This does raise a point though on a problem with rituals. It was pointed out before that the spying ritual (forget the name right now) was too short and too expensive to be useful. The same problem comes about with things like Forbiddance. A Forbiddance that can block level 5 creatures costs the same as a Forbiddance that blocks level 30, rituals are one of the few things in the game that don't have their cost scale. An odd hole. An Archmage who wants to spy on the local village idiot to be amused by his antics has to spend the same gold as to spy on Vecna! The magic circle to stop ants from getting into the kitchen costs the same as the magic circle to stop tarrasques!
I think magic circle's open up massive role playing options. It let's your level 30 characters be the one's who seal away orcus or any other demon prince/god/goddess. That's what epic levels are for. As for brokenness these circles are so easy to break a level 1 minion could do it in one standard action. A minion of a different type could easily free their master, or break the circle around the city if that's what the story calls for.
The cost is definantly a limiting factor. For a city of any size to use it it would be at least as expensive as traditional defenses, and far easier to destroy.
Idk it seems to offer utter fool-proof protection from a tarrasque who rarely has allies. Also the possibility of simply killing orcus' underlings who attempt to break the circle.
All that aside the idea that a lvl 15 or so wizard with 4 friends being able to without too much difficulty create a circle that permenantly and without the possibility of failure omits Orcus or a tarrasque in and of itself is ridiculously wrong imo.
The stat-block in the MM is only for combat; creatures may have non-combat abilities, at your discretion (I vote the Tarrasque pops the magic circle like a bubble and tramples everyone, because he is the ultimate destroyer). I do agree that rituals should scale differently than they do now, though.
Last edited by Abisashi; 9th June 2009 at 11:45 PM..
The stat-block in the MM is only for combat; creatures may have non-combat abilities, at your discretion (I vote the Tarrasque pops the magic circle like a bubble and tramples everyone, because he is the ultimate destroyer). I do agree that rituals should scale differently than they do now, though.
Is that a house rule, and if not whats the source?
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