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I read a tale on another board about how a table almost came to blows over Rain of Blows - apparently a Tempest fighter with a Bloodclaw weapon using Rain of Blows was obliterating enemies every single combat and it was frustrating the rest of the group and people were asking the player to tone down RoB, but he refused and things got heated.
It was a bit shocking to me, but I'd say that it's fair to apply the "broken game" moniker in that instance.
Tables like that are why WOTC markets the game to ages 10 and up.
besides, it sounds like it's time in that game for some enemies that make melee more of a challenge, or avoid it, not for blaming the player making effective ue of his character's powers.
I'm reasonably sure everyone here is aware that it works only when you hit. But even you recognize that it will be used when "he's sure he'll hit". See how it works when the human Paladin from Chauntea with Action Surge, a Lance of Faith power bonus, combat advantage and a Tactical Warlord ally crits in 4 of 5 encounters. Let's just say it isn't all that difficult to pull off.
Saying that it uses up channel divinity doesn't mean much. If there are no undead, a Cleric is only giving up +1 on their next attack. A Paladin gives up allowing an ally to make a save with their CHA bonus. An Avenger gives up giving an ally a reroll (which IS rather good).
Saying it uses up a minor action doesn't mean all that much either. Even though all the classes that make use of RRoT actually do use minor actions, in many cases swapping out a move action or not healing/challenging/oath targetting that round isn't too difficult.
Saying it uses up an attack power is meaningless. What ELSE are you doing with your standard action???
As for using a feat, so what? A feat to get a good chance of a once per encounter crit is the issue here.
You can certainly see that it dwarfs to oblivion the Divine Strength Channel Divinity Paladin feature, right? I'm surprised RRoT isn't higher on the list.
These are all valid points certainly, but the other party members powers mentioned here are for the exact purpose of making it easy to pull off. It doesn't make any one of those powers broken either. What you're saying though is that the power is broken in part because the other party members break it by helping on their turns to set up a 'big bada boom'.
In play for the last year with 4e, my group has found crit dependant powers to be over rated. with 5 playes and an average of 5 rounds per fight, chances are somone will crit anyway, and if it was that concerning, then have the player get on the bad side of the church of Tempus, and have an avenger show up invoke his oath of enmity on him, and use the same power against him.
It would not prevent thirst or starvation, as in past edditions, these and other conditions cannot be cured without ending the cause first. Just as drowning cannot be healed without getting the victim out of the water.
Starvation works by: a) causing damage once per day, b) not letting you get back healing surges. This power means you never need to eat or drink. Yes, you will be out of healing surges, but at full HPs and it makes doing things like, say, crossing a desert without food and water a reality.
Maybe it opens up some things for the DM, like being able to find a prisoner in an abandoned dungeon who has spent the last 50 years keeping himself alive by the power, but in the hands of the party it means there are a bunch of things the DM can no longer challenge the party with.
Starvation works by: a) causing damage once per day, b) not letting you get back healing surges. This power means you never need to eat or drink. Yes, you will be out of healing surges, but at full HPs and it makes doing things like, say, crossing a desert without food and water a reality.
Maybe it opens up some things for the DM, like being able to find a prisoner in an abandoned dungeon who has spent the last 50 years keeping himself alive by the power, but in the hands of the party it means there are a bunch of things the DM can no longer challenge the party with.
Given that the starvation rules as presented already allow a first-level character to survive without any food at all for nearly two months (and that's assuming he fails every single save), I'm not really sure Unicorn's Touch is that wonky. The easy fix is to alter the deprivation rules to say "once a character has lost all healing surges due to deprivation, he cannot regain any lost hit points, even if the healing effect doesn't require the use of a healing surge."
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In play for the last year with 4e, my group has found crit dependant powers to be over rated. with 5 playes and an average of 5 rounds per fight, chances are somone will crit anyway, and if it was that concerning, then have the player get on the bad side of the church of Tempus, and have an avenger show up invoke his oath of enmity on him, and use the same power against him.
This isn't so much a crit dependant power as much as it is one that gets you a crit more often. If all 5 players had this power you'd see several crits per encounter.
Your DM fiat solution doesn't work very well for RPGA-LFR games, btw. In a home game it is much easier to substitute the equivalent Kord version (which I did in mine). (Of course, using a broken/overpowered feat/power against the party doesn't mean it's not a broken/overpowered feat/power.)
As others said, I think it's a daily. But it is also a power that primarily does damage and needs to be compared to other dailies. In a really large combat with lots of foes, it is amazing. In smaller combats, it is somewhat underwhelming--especially if the bad guys are focused on one of your melee allies anyway. Of course, since it's a daily, you only use it in the combats where it is good, but I don't think it's broken unless you do something like take it as a multiclass feat and combine it with magic missile, white lotus riposte, etc.
Of course, since it's a daily, you only use it in the combats where it is good, but I don't think it's broken unless you do something like take it as a multiclass feat and combine it with magic missile, white lotus riposte, etc.
Had one such instance in a game yesterday. The encounter consisted of an ogre leader and 30 or so ogre minions. With a bunch of action points, the team's three strikers made mincemeat of the leader in the first few rounds, and then the minions rushed into the Warlock's (ranger multiclass) cobra stance.... I think there were three or four minions left after that.
Given that the starvation rules as presented already allow a first-level character to survive without any food at all for nearly two months (and that's assuming he fails every single save), I'm not really sure Unicorn's Touch is that wonky. The easy fix is to alter the deprivation rules to say "once a character has lost all healing surges due to deprivation, he cannot regain any lost hit points, even if the healing effect doesn't require the use of a healing surge."
I think you're missing the point here. If UT was fixed, you didn't have to come up with fixes to the starvation rules.
In other words, the point is: why not fix the problem (unlimited surgeless healing) at its root?
Had one such instance in a game yesterday. The encounter consisted of an ogre leader and 30 or so ogre minions. With a bunch of action points, the team's three strikers made mincemeat of the leader in the first few rounds, and then the minions rushed into the Warlock's (ranger multiclass) cobra stance.... I think there were three or four minions left after that.
"Break the game" is overused. It means the game overall isn't fun with that rule, as opposed to simply an overpowered element. I've seen no reports of such broken games.
I accept the overuse complaint but I have seen RoB (& RRoT) have a severely negative impact on the fun of other players & especially the DM in games I play. It does this two ways by marginalising other players & by marginalising other powers making the game less varied.
I DMed for a party with 2 rangers with Spitting Cobra Stance in it. They both went off in one fight & bloodied all the enemies as they closed for melee - it was pretty funny. This was a very easy encounter though so it was overkill & maybe does not reflect on the true power. Plus the OAs from the first few of bad guys did chop up the ranger pretty well as he shot late arrivals.
I do think it is a very good power. I am not sure it is quite over the top as it spreads out the damage like Rain of Steel does, both in time & accross multiple targets. On the watch list
Starvation works by: a) causing damage once per day, b) not letting you get back healing surges. This power means you never need to eat or drink. Yes, you will be out of healing surges, but at full HPs and it makes doing things like, say, crossing a desert without food and water a reality.
Maybe it opens up some things for the DM, like being able to find a prisoner in an abandoned dungeon who has spent the last 50 years keeping himself alive by the power, but in the hands of the party it means there are a bunch of things the DM can no longer challenge the party with.
Not so, as in past editions, and as with any other power it would a). not be able to heal this damage, unless starvation or thirst was first ended. b). doesn't give you back healing surges anyway, though it doesn't use them. If you do not find this to be your reading, just rule as in 3e and before that the damage from starvation thirst drowning or any other condition cannot be healed until the condition ends. This is the same principal as 'there's no substitute for rest'.
see my clarification above. In past editions, damage from starvation, thirst, drowning or any other condition cannot be healed by anything without first correcting the cause. I.e. no food, no healing even by magic. This is or should be the rule in 4e if it comes up for anyone in play.
This is an effect that occurs constantly for the rest of the encounter every time a foe moves closer.
Think of it as a Wizard getting a Fireball off that does not hit allies, but does hit foes and the Wizard gets to use it every single round without using an action after round one.
Against a large group of melee weapon using minions, it's definitely much stronger than Flaming Sphere because it has a larger area of effect and it occurs on the enemies' turns, so the Ranger (or Warlock in this case) does not use up any of his own actions using it in latter rounds.
The Ranger can merely back away and unlike area effect attacks that either hit or miss and are done, this power allows him to attack each minion round after round after round until he kills it or it runs away, merely be retreating every round.
Remember, 30 minions is equivalent to 7.5 standard foes or 1.5 solos. This power alone can wipe them out.
So yes, it has the potential to be too powerful. Against a solo dragon, yeah, it's not as effective.
__________________ The first sign of a broken rule is when someone suggests that the way to stop it is by readying an action.
LOL! Yea I spaced and it was late. Yes Spitting Cobra is a daily. Sorry bout that.
Thanks for the replies though. I don't think it is broken, but the DM was sure pissed off. ;O)
One of the biggest problems with spitting cobra is that it encourages really dumb behavior.
Like in the case of those 30 minions, after the first died the rest should've gone 'Uhoh, that's scary, let's rush in together' and all readied charges to go in all on the same turn. And hey, only a single OA in that instance.
Also it would be nice if it was clear if it worked on teleports and shifts (things that usually specifically work against OAs),
What's interesting about RRoT is that it compares pretty closely to the Divine Oracle PP power: Prophecy of Doom.
The main differences are the PoD uses a standard action, it's ranged 5 (to the enemy target), and probably most importantly is that the decision to crit can be made after the target is hit.
Basically the cleric is giving up his standard attack for the round to give one of his pals a crit. Nothing to sneeze at in the right group.
I think it's about right for an 11th level power. I'm undecided on how that sits with RRoT balance wise.
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