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Here is a short list of encounter powers in 4e that I think need fixing.
#5 Unicorn’s Touch (Arcane Power, Swordmage Utility 6) – This power allows healing without using any healing surges. Surgeless healing isn’t supposed to be that common at these levels, and most healing powers like this at these levels usually only work while bloodied. In actual practice though, the effects are minimal. Being forced to rest due to a lack of healing surges is quite rare and the limitless healing is only able to be done outside of combat. So this power breaks the mechanics, but isn’t really all that broken in terms of character effectiveness, making it the last power on this list.
#4 Storm of Blades (PHB2, Barbarian Attack 13) – You get an attack for each point of your constitution. Barbarians (and the fighters/rangers that MC just to get this power) can afford to have at least an 18 Con by this level to easily get 4 attacks. Any power that allows you to attack the same target multiple times needs to be carefully examined, since the static bonuses you can stack for a single round of attacks can greatly magnify the base power. It is possible to kill a single monster in one round with this power, and it’s better than many of the other encounter powers even up to epic levels.
#3 Righteous Rage of Tempus (PGtF, Channel Divinity Feat) – A minor action to auto crit on your next hit? Seriously, what were they thinking? Compare this to any other feat and you can see the discrepancy in power. If there is a feat that says, “if you hit with your next attack, add 30 points of damage”, it would never be approved, which makes me wonder how this one got through R&D. Whole builds have been created to take advantage of this feat, involving Paladins, Clerics, and Avengers wielding high-crit weapons.
#2 Guileful Switch (Martial Power, Warlord Utility 6) – As a minor action, you switch initiatives with an ally, netting the party an extra set of actions. As a daily power, this would still be good. I’ve seen people MC into the warlord class just to get this power, which immediately rings warning bells in my head. Directing the movement of allies is one of the warlord’s shticks. Now it seems they can manipulate time as well as space. One step closer to becoming a Q I suppose.
#1 Rain of Blows (PHB, Fighter Attack 3) – A potential 4 attacks against a single target and we encounter the same problems as Storm of Blades. Except that this time, it’s a 3rd level power! This is as good as some epic level encounter powers that the Fighter has in terms of dealing damage. Static bonuses can stack to ridiculous amounts, often dwarfing the weapon die, and multiple attacks against the same target exacerbates the discrepancy. If an epic level fighter needs to think twice about replacing a power he got when he was 3rd level, then that power definitely needs to be looked at for balance issues.
What’s in your list of encounter powers that you think need fixing?
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Depends a lot on what you're objecting to - you definitely picked some really good ones, but frankly I'd be okay putting all (yes, all) of the stun encounter powers on that list.
Depends a lot on what you're objecting to - you definitely picked some really good ones, but frankly I'd be okay putting all (yes, all) of the stun encounter powers on that list.
Why not just put stun condition on the chopping block. I think stunning monsters are pretty wrong too. Change Stunned to:
* You're dazed.
* You take a -4 penalty to attack rolls.
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Storm of Blades - You know you have to hit to make the next attack(s)? As soon as you miss, the chain stops. Might be obvious, but I didn't realize that the first time.
Rain of Blows - Not a bad power, but it's given at far too low a level. It's should be nerfed or moved to a higher level.
Righteous Rage of Tempus - This one is broken. Should be removed completely.
I'm not familiar with Storm of Blades, but it sounds an awful lot like Blade Cascade the daily...
RoB could probably safely be a level 23 encounter power.
RRoT would probably be decent if it just added a die of damage to your next attack, similar to the half-orc racial ability.
I'd rather just toss Guileful Switch entirely.
Unicorn's Touch could probably just change to let you trigger a healing surge, though I'd have to verify how it compares to Bastion of Health at that point. Or maybe just change it entirely to get away from healing - automatically removes poison and gives you a save against other conditions.
Storm of Blades - You know you have to hit to make the next attack(s)? As soon as you miss, the chain stops. Might be obvious, but I didn't realize that the first time.
Yeah, that's why it's not in the top 3
Like someone said, it's very similar to Blade Cascade, except it's at a lower level and an encounter power.
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Unicorn's Touch could probably just change to let you trigger a healing surge, though I'd have to verify how it compares to Bastion of Health at that point. Or maybe just change it entirely to get away from healing - automatically removes poison and gives you a save against other conditions.
If they change it so it only heals a bloodied target, then it would be more balanced. It would still be very good (since it has another option to grant a save), but it wouldn't break any mechanics for surgeless healing.
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Unicorn's Touch? Really? 5 + Con Mod HP vs. all the great movement options in that group? You think that one needs "fixed" because it's a problem?!?! I can see the Righteous Rage dislike, but the rest I just don't. If people want to spend the feats and stats for Guileful Switch, for example, let 'em. I'm generally short on feats for what I want to do anyway and have to make hard choices. It's a very Warlord-themed power and very good, but by no means "broken".
Last edited by Herschel; 10th June 2009 at 08:18 PM..
Unicorn's Touch? Really? 5 + Con Mod HP vs. all the great movement options in that group? You think that one needs "fixed" because it's a problem?!?! I can see the Righteous Rage dislike, but the rest I just don't. If people want to spend the feats and stats for Guileful Switch, for example, let 'em. I'm generally short on feats for what I want to do anyway and have to make hard choices. It's a very Warlord-themed power and very good, but by no means "broken".
I'd say that Unicorn's Touch is hardly that powerful in combat, but that infinite out-of-combat healing at level 6 is very much against the design philosophy - and balance of 4E.
As for Guileful Switch... it is a level 6 utility power that gives an entire extra turn to the user every single combat. I don't see any other power at that level that really can compare. Honestly, I think you'd have to look deep into Epic - and I'd be doubtful of finding something even then.
I'm not too worried about Rain of Blows, given that it has such steep entry requirements. It's awesome if you've sunk a lot into your Dexterity and if you're using some pretty specific weapons, but many Fighters haven't.
RRoT is broken as hell. It's an insane power, IMHO.
Unicorn's Touch doesn't bother me any more than it ever has. It's possible to tweak it, but it requires some extreme specialization. I'm fine with it.
From a different perspective, I haven't been happy with powers that let you trick or force enemies to attack each other. They're too situational, and even worse, the designers don't seem to have fully grasped the math involved in needing to successfully attack one monster in order to give it the chance to successfully attack another monster, at which point you finally deal damage.
For example, Turathi Highborn, selected by one of my players because it really fits her character, has "Bolts of Bedevilment." It says Bolts plural, but it only attacks one enemy. If you hit, that enemy makes a basic attack as a free action against another enemy. The enemy gets a +2 on the attack roll, and deals an extra 2d6 fire damage.
That may seem nice at first, but think about it. First you've got to have an enemy eligible to attack an ally without moving, but lets ignore that. Lets say you have a 60% chance of hitting with the bolts. Then the enemy has to attack its ally, which means maybe a 60% chance of hitting again due to the bonus you've granted it. Then it does regular damage +2d6.
Well, you're already looking at a 36% chance of actually dealing damage. And then the damage you deal is about equal to a regular level 11 encounter power, maybe.
It seems like the coolness of controlling an enemy caused the designers to overvalue the power. Even in optimal situations (forcing a solo to attack another enemy, for example) you're still not looking at good damage simply because of the terrible, terrible chance of hitting.
My group's solution, by acclimation, is to let Bolts of Bedevilment attack two enemies. I've felt like a lot of powers of this type seem underpowered, but this is the only one our group uses, so its the only change I've made.
I dont think we need to lose the STUN condition...It's fine I find ironically versus minions, regular monsters and even elites...It is just plain horrendous though against Solos (especially the MM1 solos).
D&D has never really understood the fact that when it comes to Solo monsters, you really have to ignore every rule/suggestion when creating a monster.
Personally, my answer is to work on the SOLO monster design (and I think WOTC agree with me)...It is much harder to stunlock a MM2 solo than it was to stunlock a MM1 solo.
Personally, my answer is to work on the SOLO monster design (and I think WOTC agree with me)...It is much harder to stunlock a MM2 solo than it was to stunlock a MM1 solo.
I agree. Lots of powers break down when the dynamics of the fight changes dramatically like that found in a solo fight. Stun vs. solos should only take out one of their attacks or something similar rather than incapacitate them completely.
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I dont think we need to lose the STUN condition...It's fine I find ironically versus minions, regular monsters and even elites...It is just plain horrendous though against Solos (especially the MM1 solos).
My problem is, the condition sucks against players. Have a 3-man party fight 3-4 ghouls, and watch how frustrating it can get. In a 6-man party it's not terrible when 1 person is stunned, except that one person has to wait for 10 player turns and a number of DM turns, before he gets to act again, assuming he doesn't get stunned one more time.
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My problem is, the condition sucks against players. Have a 3-man party fight 3-4 ghouls, and watch how frustrating it can get. In a 6-man party it's not terrible when 1 person is stunned, except that one person has to wait for 10 player turns and a number of DM turns, before he gets to act again, assuming he doesn't get stunned one more time.
That is relatively easy to modify on my part since as the DM, I'm the one who decides what monsters to use...For example, I would still use ghouls but like you noted, it isn't that bad if only a couple people get stunned...
#1 Rain of Blows (PHB, Fighter Attack 3) – A potential 4 attacks against a single target
I just looked up and read the power description and I don't understand it. Could someone quickly explain how that power would yield 4 attacks against the target? (sorry if I'm being dense - I'm new to the edition)
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I just looked up and read the power description and I don't understand it. Could someone quickly explain how that power would yield 4 attacks against the target? (sorry if I'm being dense - I'm new to the edition)
It doesn't. I suppose people don't know how to read,
"Encounter ✦ Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC, two attacks
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Weapon: If you’re wielding a light blade, a spear, or a flail
and have Dexterity 15 or higher, make a secondary attack.
Secondary Target: The same or a different target
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage."
Even with a most generous reading it would be 3 attacks. But it really only does 2[W] and 2 X str mod damage.
If it did more damage than that it would say "1[W] + Strength modifier damage per attack" like the ranger powers do.
I just looked up and read the power description and I don't understand it. Could someone quickly explain how that power would yield 4 attacks against the target? (sorry if I'm being dense - I'm new to the edition)
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