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Old 27th June 2009, 01:53 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dr_Ruminahui View Post
My own thought was that the power was easier to write as an at will that had a restriction on how many times a day it could be used.

That said, it is easier to conceptualize (at least for me) as a power that grants a number of daily powers. If I ever play a palladin, I will create one power card for each use, using the same backer for them as I would for my daily powers.
One confusion that could result would be that you couldn't use Salve of Power to "recharge" a usage, which you might be inclined to think were possible looking at your power cards.

"When salve of power is applied to a creature, the target can expend one healing surge to regain the use of one daily power of 5th level or lower (instead of regaining hit points). "
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Old 28th June 2009, 05:58 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Lay on Hands is an At-Will because the number of times you can use it per day is based on your Wisdom modifier, not once per day or once per encounter - AND you can use it whenever you want, as many times per encounter/day as you wish (though only once per round).

If you have a +6 WIS modifier, then you have 6 uses that you can take advantage of anytime. 6 in the first encounter, 2 per encounter, or maybe none if things are going very well.

As weird as it looks, this is by far the most sensible way to classify the power given the way it is used. It is unique compared to any other classes healing out there and fits the flavor of the Paladin perfectly!
This is exactly right. There is no "inconsistency" in the PHB. This power is written exactly the way it is for the reasons outlined above.
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Old 28th June 2009, 07:22 PM   #43 (permalink)
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This is exactly right. There is no "inconsistency" in the PHB. This power is written exactly the way it is for the reasons outlined above.
Except you can't use it as many times per day as you like. There's a daily limit to how many times it can be used (just like with any other Daily power, including Rage Strike).

But as has already been discussed, it's just as much a consistency issue as it is a mechanical issue. Because it is (currently) an At-Will power, there's two "problems" with it. Firstly, dominating the Paladin gives the enemy access to the power, and secondly, few effects and abilities allow the Paladin to regain uses of this power.

All in all, turning it into a Daily (Special) power, similar to Rage Strike, would solve more issues than leaving it as is.
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Old 28th June 2009, 09:04 PM   #44 (permalink)
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because it can't be recharged. Dailies can be recharged and gain feas, powers, items, paragon paths, and epic destinies that do this.

At-will won't gain feats, powers, and paths that recharge them because 99.9999% of the time, at wills can be used unlimited times.
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Old 29th June 2009, 10:56 AM   #45 (permalink)
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because it can't be recharged. Dailies can be recharged and gain feas, powers, items, paragon paths, and epic destinies that do this.

At-will won't gain feats, powers, and paths that recharge them because 99.9999% of the time, at wills can be used unlimited times.
That, however, is a silly reason IMO. Lay on Hands is hardly a potent power in comparison to other Daily powers, including those that grant healing. I see no reason why a Paladin can't be given the option of regaining a use of Lay on Hands when granted the option of regaining a Daily power.

And you can then consider this: What is the bigger issue? That enemies can abuse Lay on Hands by dominating the Paladin, or that the Paladin might expend regain-a-Daily-power effects on getting Lay on Hands uses back?

As I said earlier, turning it into a Daily (Special) would solve more issues than leaving it as is, namely that it can't be abused vs. it becoming possible to regain uses of.

And when I say abuse, it's because I'm convinced that was not the intention with the Lay on Hands power. Imagine this ancient crystal dragon (or some other nasty solo that potentially has a dominate power) take control of the Paladin, expend one of his numerous surges and regaining hundreds of hit points. That's sure to make the Paladin unpopular, make the fight even more grindy (as the solo just regained a quarter of its thousand or so HP), and lastly make the Paladin feel abused - even more so than being dominated normally would.
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Old 29th June 2009, 06:29 PM   #46 (permalink)
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That's an interesting point that hadn't "sunk in" until now: the BBEG could use a dominated pally to heal itself, only becuase LoH is an At-Will. Nifty!
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Old 29th June 2009, 10:39 PM   #47 (permalink)
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All in all, turning it into a Daily (Special) power, similar to Rage Strike, would solve more issues than leaving it as is.
I tend to agree with the OP that Lay on Hands makes much more sense as a Daily (special) power much like Rage Strike. IMO, Daily is a much better fit for an ability that recharges on an Extended Rest and the (special) limitation works just like the limitations on Healing/Inspiring Word (and on Rage Strike). On a fundamental level, Lay on Hands is a "daily" resource because you can only use it a certain number of times per day. This is in much the same way that Healing Surges are also daily resources, even though you can also spend a healing surge more than once per day.

The term "at-will" is better reserved to mean an "unlimited" resource and not an activity that you can do "whenever you want, but only X times per day". The point about the perverse result from a dominated paladin just demonstrates this point. It is unfair that a dominated paladin can be forced to expend limited daily resources, whereas no other class is vulnerable that way.

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Old 1st July 2009, 12:02 AM   #48 (permalink)
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My instinct when I read the first couple of posts here was different to several other posters. I've run into 3 or so types of monsters which have stopped the party from using encounters or dailies (usually save ends).

Nothing (except those evil DMs above who are going to dominate the poor pally) can stop the paladin from laying his hands on things.

Which is quite sinister now they're no longer exclusively lawful good.
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Old 6th July 2009, 10:06 AM   #49 (permalink)
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It now seems that if it were to be put out today it would be a daily "special" like healing word is an encounter "special". This is based on the new power revealed today for the newest divine power exerpt seems to be an alternative to lay on hands and is a daily power usuable multiple times per day equal to his wisdom modifier (minimum of one).
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Old 6th July 2009, 01:46 PM   #50 (permalink)
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It now seems that if it were to be put out today it would be a daily "special" like healing word is an encounter "special". This is based on the new power revealed today for the newest divine power exerpt seems to be an alternative to lay on hands and is a daily power usuable multiple times per day equal to his wisdom modifier (minimum of one).
Exactly. This new class feature, called "Virtue's Touch", for the Paladin (to appear in Divine Power) can be used just as often as Lay on Hands, but is listed as a "Daily (Special)" and not as an "At-Will (Special)"... Let's see about the other new feature, called "Ardent Vow", and see what's inconsistent now...
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