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Old 2nd July 2009, 03:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Sorcerous Blade Channeling and basic melee attacks

The Sorcerous Blade Channeling feat states:

"When you use any ranged sorcerer attack power through a dagger, you can use the power as a melee attack. If you do so, the power’s range equals your melee reach."

Does this allow you to use a power such as Acid Orb or Dragonfrost which can be used as a ranged basic attack as a melee basic attack?
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Old 2nd July 2009, 03:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I would say that's a reasonable interpretation, since the feat essentially only changes the range of the ability used.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 03:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I've ruled "no" in a one-shot I ran, but I could see it either way.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 04:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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At first glance, I'd say by RAW, no.... though I can't say that it's too overly powerful...
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Old 2nd July 2009, 04:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Be aware that ruling that way really reduces the incentive for a sorceror to take the other feat reaper's touch which explicitly says that you can...

My favorite visualization for Reaper's touch comes from a recent Doctor Strange Cartoon - The sorcerors were able to conjure weapons, though not all of them did some seemed to be using their fists with runes glowing around them -- virtually perfect Reaper's touch. You could almost picture the Sorcerous Blade Channeling as somebody grabbing a dagger and it growing into a big weapon dripping with energy that looked like the power they are using... green and black sizzling and popping energy for acid orb --- would be exactly what Mordo used.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 04:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Another vote for no. Of course, something could trigger a "basic attack" or "ranged basic attack" which you could use at a melee range with this feat... but that still doesn't make it a "melee basic attack".
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Old 2nd July 2009, 05:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Mentat55 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
A "melee basic attack" is a specific rules term. Sorcerous Blade Channeling just lets you change the range of your attack to "Melee" instead of "Ranged". It does not turn a ranged basic attack into a melee basic attack.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 05:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Changing the attack-type of Acid Orb will never change the text 'Special: This power can be used as a ranged basic attack.'

That said, there's nothing stopping you from using it as a melee power when you are granted a free ranged basic attack; you could avoid OAs this way.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 05:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentat55 View Post
A "melee basic attack" is a specific rules term. Sorcerous Blade Channeling just lets you change the range of your attack to "Melee" instead of "Ranged". It does not turn a ranged basic attack into a melee basic attack.
This is the correct translation of it. It does not allow it.

However, as many have said, if your DM chooses to allow it, it is not overtly overpowered.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 06:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'll answer with a question of my own. Does it say basic anywhere in the feat?

that's your answer.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 06:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by theshard View Post
This is the correct translation of it. It does not allow it.

However, as many have said, if your DM chooses to allow it, it is not overtly overpowered.
But does steal the thunder of and make another feat less appealing.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 07:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hazard_53188 View Post
The Sorcerous Blade Channeling feat states:

"When you use any ranged sorcerer attack power through a dagger, you can use the power as a melee attack. If you do so, the power’s range equals your melee reach."

Does this allow you to use a power such as Acid Orb or Dragonfrost which can be used as a ranged basic attack as a melee basic attack?
I asked this same question myself a little while ago. The response from WOTC customer service was a quick and unqualified "yes."

The response from this board had a bit more "no" to it, as you are seeing. After some inquisition, it seemed that the "no" boiled down to: with strict RAW, the feat allows Acid Orb to be a melee attack, and the power itself is a basic attack, but it's not a melee basic attack.

My recommendation: if you want to be uber-hard-nosed RAW, then split this hair and rule "no." Otherwise, go with common sense and fun and WOTC which say that a melee attack which is also a basic attack is, for all intents and purposes, a melee basic attack. It's certainly not an over-powered, game breaking ruling to make.

-Dan'L
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Old 2nd July 2009, 07:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Dan'L- It's hard to say it isn't worth considering for balance reasons: It's not like anyone else can fire off a 1d10+8 damage OA at level 1...
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Old 2nd July 2009, 08:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Dan'L- It's hard to say it isn't worth considering for balance reasons: It's not like anyone else can fire off a 1d10+8 damage OA at level 1...
16 str dwarf with dwarven weapon training and a mordenkrad does 2d6+3+2 damage. That's close, right? And not a striker?
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Old 2nd July 2009, 08:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan'L View Post
My recommendation: if you want to be uber-hard-nosed RAW, then split this hair and rule "no."
-Dan'L
Here is a nicely sensible reason to say no...

Sorcerous Blade Channelling
When you are using a power as you learned it, if that power is very natural to you and you can do it quickly without thinking you cant now because you are using it in a unnatural sort of way now... (is that unreasonable sounding or lacking in common sense)

Reaper's Touch
When you acquire this you learn to wield a couple of your most natural powers even better these 2 specific powers you can now wield in an unusual way.

Note Sorcerous Blade Channeling affects all the sorcerors ranged powers and Reaper's touch only affects two?
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Old 2nd July 2009, 09:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Garthanos View Post
Be aware that ruling that way really reduces the incentive for a sorceror to take the other feat reaper's touch which explicitly says that you can...

My favorite visualization for Reaper's touch comes from a recent Doctor Strange Cartoon - The sorcerors were able to conjure weapons, though not all of them did some seemed to be using their fists with runes glowing around them -- virtually perfect Reaper's touch. You could almost picture the Sorcerous Blade Channeling as somebody grabbing a dagger and it growing into a big weapon dripping with energy that looked like the power they are using... green and black sizzling and popping energy for acid orb --- would be exactly what Mordo used.
There's something else to consider. Reaper's Touch is one of the Dragon Magazine feats, which are frequently ill conceived and are never subject to errata. Sorcerous Blade Channelling is from PHB2, which may see future corrections. Many people will refrain from permitting Dragon materials in their campaign because of the poorly written nature, but the main book materials are rarely censored.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 09:36 PM   #17 (permalink)
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But does steal the thunder of and make another feat less appealing.
With my statement I was not clear. I agree, and I don't allow it in my game but if a DM were to allow, it would not be game breaking.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 09:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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In this case that implies reapers touch may not appear as a comparison beside the other in a particular campaign... and not being as versatile as the other feat. (although not bound to a particular style of implement or class either!!),
Or that might have just been a precursor idea that became Sorcerous Blade Channelling
Excluding wizards and warlocks from the fun just seems not nice to me.
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Old 3rd July 2009, 05:36 AM   #19 (permalink)
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There's something else to consider. Reaper's Touch is one of the Dragon Magazine feats, which are frequently ill conceived and are never subject to errata.
I hear that.
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Old 3rd July 2009, 05:51 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the input. I appreciate it.
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