D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
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Hospitaler's care (16th level) you add your charisma modifier to the healing provided each time you use your lay on hands.
Anyone know if this stacks with the feat bonus "healing hands" ?
I was looking at the eratta, healing font is saying it is suppossed to read ally regains hit points equal to 1d6 x wisdom mod. Seems a bit powerful to me but i'd love to hear what others think.
End of the day, both of those are fine and it's actually the mark healing things on multiattacks (area, close, etc) that include the paladin and not trigger his mark that are the real issue.
It's when they attack your ally, hit or miss you heal a bunch. There's no proviso for it not triggering the challenge (ie, including the paladin in it). Unless they errata-ed it?
It really really screws area-effecting monsters, who will even miss your allies and heal them tremendously. There was a whole thread about a beholder hit with this who basically got nothing done cause it automatically eye rayed every turn and healed folks more than it damaged.
Then again, I'm not sure I'm the best judge - I mostly hate the paladin style paragon path options of uber marking. Dazed and weakened for the encounter, heal everyone, etc. Makes things more boring
Hospitaler's Blessing (11th level): When an enemy that you currently challenge attacks one of your allies, whether the attack hits or misses, that ally regains hit points equal to one-half your level + your Wisdom modifier.
There's a whole lot broken with this.
1. Range. Will this work if the paladin is teleported to another plane of existence for a round?
2. Is it every attack role against a friend or just if the attack doesn't include you?
3. Is there any limit to the number of uses?
4. Is this a free action, immediate action or otherwise?
The effect would be just fine if it said "as an immediate reaction you may heal the target ..."
If I was going to change Hospitaler's Blessing to a once a round feature, I'd give the class something else to compensate. For example:
Hospitaler Paragon path:
Hospitaler’s Blessing (11th level feature): Change to “Once a round, when an enemy that you currently challenge attacks one of your allies, whether the attack hits or misses, that ally regains hit points equal to one-half your level + your Wisdom modifier.
Hospitaler’s Action (11th level feature): Change to “When you spend an action point to take an extra action, each ally within 5 squares regains hit points equal to one-half your level + your Wisdom modifier.
Ideally it should have the same trigger conditions as the challenge itself. And it's still powerful: it means that a monster without multiple attacks can never kill anyone except you, unless it does enough damage to take them to -bloodied.
That said, the paladin mark itself needs a hefty boost (my favourite is to turn it into an implement attack that targets will, and has a normal damage roll that increases per tier, meaning that it gets boosted by damage bonuses, feats, it can crit etc etc).
Nah, I like the auto-damage concept of the whole deal. The auto-damage needs to be greater, though. I believe at DDXP '08 (the one before 4e was released), it was 5 + CHA mod at Heroic (I assume that would scale 5/10/15 by tiers).
Anyway, it's kinda ironic. The Paladin mark itself is the weakest of the bunch but the Hospitaler PP makes the Shielding Swordmage question his manhood.
Nah, I like the auto-damage concept of the whole deal. The auto-damage needs to be greater, though. I believe at DDXP '08 (the one before 4e was released), it was 5 + CHA mod at Heroic (I assume that would scale 5/10/15 by tiers).
Well my idea was mainly to make it more risky for a monster to break, and bring it into line with weapon damage easily.
D8 or d10+cha+implement+feats is a large amount of damage to risk, not to mention potential crits. Half that is a relatively small amount of damage even if you're guaranteed to take it.
Additionally it means that the paladin might actually be able to make use of the epic-tier radiant feat (the one that makes a radiant AOE), and take advantage of the class that gives expanded radiant crit ranges, not to mention every other implement and feat based damage boost conceivable.
Come to think of it, it might be nice if the pally had 2 powers: one at range and the other in melee (kind of like the warden): the ranged one (actually a "1 target in close burst 10" to avoid OAs) would be cha based, the melee one str based. The melee would would use [w] and the ranged one some other die type (like 1d8). That would sort of balance out the defendery-ness of the paladin. Str paladins get good OA and good melee mark, but bad range mark. Cha paladins get a good ranged mark, but bad OAs.
Last edited by Saeviomagy; 7th July 2009 at 03:38 AM..
A big strength of the Paladin mark is that it requires no action. Fighter/Warden/Swordmage all require an immediate action to trigger their mark power. Once that immediate action has been taken, the enemies can do whatever they want without fear of retribution.
The Paladin will deal the auto-radiant damage every single time a challenged or sanctioned enemy violates the mark. And---since there is no immediate/opportunity action required, if the Paladin is dazed, stunned, etc...the damage can still be dealt as normal.
The damage may not be the same as an Execution Axe wielding fighter can deal in one shot...but it's guaranteed damage that can be dealt multiple times!
It's when they attack your ally, hit or miss you heal a bunch. There's no proviso for it not triggering the challenge (ie, including the paladin in it). Unless they errata-ed it?
Yes, they errata'd it:
Quote:
Hospitaler’s Blessing
Page 101: Replace “attacks one of your allies” with “makes an attack against one of your allies that does not include you.” The former text generates a disproportionate amount of healing, and it doesn’t give a monster a good way to use close or area attacks without healing its enemies.
Hospitaler’s Blessing (11th level): When an enemy that you currently challenge makes an attack against one of your allies that does not include you, whether the attack hits or misses, that ally regains hit points equal to one-half your level + your Wisdom modifier.
Heh, they hadn't at the time, but yes, they did. They still haven't answered a couple questions... like there's a whole timing issue around divine challenge, when the damage applies, when the heal triggers, whether forceful challenge lets you move people out of melee before they hit, etc.
If the heal triggers after the attack, it means that it's near impossible to kill an ally of the hospitaler's through his mark (ie, cause even if reduced to -50, they'll heal 10 and be back at 10hp)... if it triggers before the attack (like many assume divine challenge does), then you might not have anything to heal. Kinda lose either way, really. I wish it just reduced damage by that amount instead. But eh.
If I was going to change Hospitaler's Blessing to a once a round feature, I'd give the class something else to compensate. For example
If you want to make is stronger to compensate consider making it trigger on divine sanction in addition to divine challenge. That would be reasonably fair, as you're removing both the big limitation of the feature and the big drawback.
Playing a 14th level Hospitaler myself I actually think the paragon path is fairly balanced after the errata. You can only mark one opponent, and all you do is make sure that that opponent needs to focus on you. Challenge is difficult enough to maintain that it's rarely a true way to screw a monster entirely.
Even when I know I'm going into a long, hard fight and activate font of healing at the start of my first turn I've never really done more than about 50 healing with it. It's a good power, but not broken at daily since they worded it correctly with regard to multi-attacks. Also my minor action feels like it's a big cost between challenge, lay on hands, wrath of the gods, this and bless weapon.
__________________ "I took a risk... and I ended up in the bag of holding" -the player of Ian Whitefire (deceased)
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