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As of right now there are no published classes which can use dexterity to attack with a spear.
However, the fighter gets significant advantages from a high dexterity if he wields a spear. His primary attacking statistic is strength, but there are a lot of powers that are specifically designed to work with spears and which get bonuses to accuracy and damage based on a high dexterity. Some even allow you to attack by adding both your dexterity and your strength together!
That's where I'd send a player who wanted a dextrous spear user.
I looked at rogue, and the powers seem to all require light blades. I only the initial books. What book is the monk in?
Monk will be in PHB3 next March, but it can be playtested if you have a Dragon subscription.
Short answer: the only way to effectively fight with a spear using Dex is to be a member of a class that a) uses Dexterity for attack and damage with its powers and b) is capable of using spears with its powers. Right now, only a few classes use Dex for their primary attack stat:
- Rogues can't use spears with their powers.
- Rangers use Dex and can use spears, but only when making ranged attacks. You could be an eladrin javelineer as a ranger.
- Monks can use spears with all their powers and attack with Dexterity.
Right now, monk is your best choice. You could also take the Melee Training feat from PHB2 that lets you make basic attacks using Dex, but that won't help you with attack powers.
Finally, if your DM is willing to house rule, Martial Power has the Tunnel Stalker feat, which allows dwarf rogues with Str 13 and Con 13 to treat one-handed axes, hammers, and picks as light blades, at the cost of one die of sneak attack. Ask your DM if he's willing to change the feat to n eladrin racial feat called Woodland Skirmisher, which requires a 13 Str and 13 Wis, and allows you to treat longswords and one-handed spears as light blades at the cost of sneak attack.
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Last edited by Kordeth; 7th July 2009 at 01:03 AM..
There are a bunch of powers from a Dragon article on Eladrin, IIRC, which have a Weapon line like this: Weapon: If you’re wielding a light blade, heavy blade or a spear, you gain a bonus to the attack roll equal to your Dexterity modifier. That's identical to attacking with Dexterity.
Yeah, it's Dragon 366:
- Hesitation Slash
- Armor-Piercing Thrust
- Nimble Bladestorm
- Blades from All Angles
Cheers, -- N
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An eladrin's other bonus is to Intelligence; you didn't ask about INT and spear use, but....
Artificers use INT for their attack stat and can use spears, and have some Weapon powers (not enough yet in Character Builder...until tomorrow). This is probably the best bet for INT + spear.
Warlords use STR, but can get nice bonuses for high INT.
Swordmages use INT, but although they can use spears for Weapon powers, their Implement powers require light or heavy blades. There is not yet a weapon that is both a spear and a blade. You could fight with a spear or trident in one hand and a shortsword or dagger in the other, but you would lose the significant AC bonus swordmages get for having an empty hand.
There are only two classes that attack with dex: rogue and ranger. Since rogues can't use spears, that leaves you with dual-tossing javelins (or tratnyrs out of AV) as a ranger. This is tricky at level 1 because javelins cost 5 gp a piece (tratnyrs cost 10) and you don't have enough starting gold to get enough javelins to last an entire battle.
Magical thrown weapons always return to the user, however, so if you can start the game with magical javelins (or get the DM to fudge things for you) your plan will work.
There is a feat in Martial Power that allows Eladrin to use longswords with rogue powers. If rangers don't interest you, you could ask your DM to expand that feat to spears as well. It's not particularly overpowering since you have to give up a die of sneak attack damage to use the feat.
If you dual-throw javelins, you only need to hold one, since you need to be holding two melee weapons or a ranged weapon to use ranger stuff.
So here's an interesting question - if you throw a tratnyr two-handed, do you get the versatile damage bonus? The definition of versatile from the PHB would seem to indicate that you do...
if you throw a tratnyr two-handed, do you get the versatile damage bonus? The definition of versatile from the PHB would seem to indicate that you do...
My answer as a DM would be simple.
'I do not believe off-hand you toss a spear two-handed, but if you can show me footage of, say a javelin thrower, or other spearman -realisticly- tossing such a weapon with two hands, then I'd certainly allow it! Anime doesn't count.'
If I was really generous, I'd substitute a live demonstration by the player in question.
'I do not believe off-hand you toss a spear two-handed, but if you can show me footage of, say a javelin thrower, or other spearman -realisticly- tossing such a weapon with two hands, then I'd certainly allow it! Anime doesn't count.'
If I was really generous, I'd substitute a live demonstration by the player in question.
You are correct, they typically thrown with one hand. With that in mind if you watch the Viking vs Samurai episode of Deadliest Warrior they do a demonstration of how the Vikings used to throw two spears at once.
If you dual-throw javelins, you only need to hold one, since you need to be holding two melee weapons or a ranged weapon to use ranger stuff.
So here's an interesting question - if you throw a tratnyr two-handed, do you get the versatile damage bonus? The definition of versatile from the PHB would seem to indicate that you do...
By RAW, I believe so. However, there aren't any other two-handed thrown weapons, so there's plenty of justification in the rules to houserule otherwise, in addition to the metagame reasons.
I could easily accept it being houseruled; however, I don't think that allowing it is particularly overpowered.
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You are correct, they typically thrown with one hand. With that in mind if you watch the Viking vs Samurai episode of Deadliest Warrior they do a demonstration of how the Vikings used to throw two spears at once.
'I do not believe off-hand you toss a spear two-handed, but if you can show me footage of, say a javelin thrower, or other spearman -realisticly- tossing such a weapon with two hands, then I'd certainly allow it! Anime doesn't count.'
If I was really generous, I'd substitute a live demonstration by the player in question.
You might explain it as actually throwing it with one hand, but if you're free to swing your other hand around properly as a counterbalance (because it is empty), then you can put more oomph into the throw.
That's spears 'akimbo' which I'm certainly not debating. That's not the same throwing one spear two-handed to win the versatile bonus.
I was just showing what I thought was a great alternative to the traditional thrown spear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaelis
You might explain it as actually throwing it with one hand, but if you're free to swing your other hand around properly as a counterbalance (because it is empty), then you can put more oomph into the throw.
This I would consider allowing as it would not be near as awkward as trying to throw a spear two-handed.
That's spears 'akimbo' which I'm certainly not debating. That's not the same throwing one spear two-handed to win the versatile bonus.
I was just showing what I thought was a great alternative to the traditional thrown spear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaelis
You might explain it as actually throwing it with one hand, but if you're free to swing your other hand around properly as a counterbalance (because it is empty), then you can put more oomph into the throw.
This I would consider allowing as it would not be near as awkward as trying to throw a spear two-handed.
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