D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
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My group is fairly new to 4th Ed. If we want to use a "core" or "vanilla", standard 4th Edition D&D rule set, what books etc. does that include?
My guess is that it's all the generic hardcovers (we have most of them). Is the Dragon Mag stuff officially official? What about those bonus powers in the miniature packs?
Ebberron and Forgotten Realms isn't core by default is it?
When I use Character Builder, is there a way I can set it to not show all of the Forgotten Realms and other non-generic stuff? It would make it a lot easier on us newbies.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ki Ryn
My group is fairly new to 4th Ed. If we want to use a "core" or "vanilla", standard 4th Edition D&D rule set, what books etc. does that include?
My guess is that it's all the generic hardcovers (we have most of them). Is the Dragon Mag stuff officially official? What about those bonus powers in the miniature packs?
Ebberron and Forgotten Realms isn't core by default is it?
When I use Character Builder, is there a way I can set it to not show all of the Forgotten Realms and other non-generic stuff? It would make it a lot easier on us newbies.
"Core" no longer exists as a useful designator. Perhaps it means "no pre-view material and no Dragon/Dungeon", but that's about it. Maybe no Campaign settings? WotC has specifically avoided the "core" concept, as it tends to limit which products are "evergreen".
CB does allow you to chose what material to include. Go to "management" and then look at "campaign settings". You can save campaign settings to upload to other PCs.
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I just started too and I am currently using all "hardcovers" as "core", but I only use what's useful for PC's and not directly connected to a "setting". For example I gave my player's the option to become Artificer or Swordmage, but I banned, for example, divine feats, backgrounds, paragon paths (when they are needed) or anything related to Eberron or FRs.
I also banned the Dungeon/Dragon content for the sake of "balance".
So here's a list of what I'm using:
PC's:
Player's Handbook
Player's Handbook 2
Martial Power
Arcane Power
Forgotten Realms PG (Only races/classes and generic feats)
Eberron PG (Only races/classes and generic feats)
DM:
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual 2
Open Grave
Draconomicon I
Forgotten Realms Campaing Guide (only Monsters and some adventure ideas)
Manual of the Planes (I use the "Pantheon details" to enhance the god-player interactions)
Dungeon/Dragon (adventure ideas)
It makes me sad that so many people disregard the magazines for perceived balance issues.
~
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Everything is Core in 4E. However, YOU decide what is available in your campaign. As has been mentioned you can filter the sources which are used in the Character Builder.
Ki Ryn, in character builder you have the option of selecting what material is permissible by clicking on the "manage" tab, then selecting "campaign settings." Only items that you have checked off will be displayed as content in Builder.
Thanks everyone for the pointers to the Manage tab (I had looked under Preferences to no avail). That will make it easier, whatever we decide.
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To the OP, I would suggest letting your players have the following:
PHB1
PHB2
Non-magical weapons from AV, excluding Double Weapons
The swordmage class from FR (if anybody wants one)
The extra weapons from AV are nice because the selection for Superior weapons in the PHB is abysmal.
Ryujin, is there a way to stop the unchecked stuff from actually showing up in the lists? All of the splat items are still there, they just make the character marked "houseruled in X" if you pick them.
Edit: the powers and feats disappear just fine, it's only the magic items that refuse to go away (and they are by far the biggest annoyance!).
Thanks everyone for the pointers to the Manage tab (I had looked under Preferences to no avail). That will make it easier, whatever we decide.
Well, actually, it depends on which hand of WotC you listen to. Their marketing people say "everything is core" (which is a meaningless statement). If you look at the covers of the rulebooks, you will see that the DMG, PHB1, PHB2, MM1, and MM2 actually have "D&D Core Rules" printed right on them and everything else is marked "Game Supplement". So if you need some outside justification, that would be it. You can declare those books and those only to be the core rules and point at the cover of the book, which is pretty hard to refute.
That being said I personally don't see anything wrong with using anything from any of the published books. It is all quality material. You may find you don't like little bits and pieces here and there, like certain items in AV can definitely become cheesy, but there are ways for munchkins to do that with just PHB1, so it isn't like things go downhill. You're mostly pretty good until paragon tier at the worst before a few stunlocks start to raise their ugly heads.
You can play an excellent and complete 4e game using only the three books I'd call "true core." That is, the PHB, MM, and DMG.
If you want to start small, that's a good place to start!
From there, I'd probably add sources in more or less this order...
* Any DM-only book you care to add. No need to make up your mind here.
* Adventurer's Vault (mostly for the regular equipment, including superior weapons)
* PHB2 (Races, classes, and feats! OH MY!)
* FRPG (mostly for Drow, Genasi, and Swordmage)
* Eberron PG (mostly for races + Artificer)
* Martial Power and/or Arcane Power
* Dragon Magazine
I'm putting the Power books near-last because I think it's usually better to get more breadth than more depth. While I think they're excellent - particularly Arcane Power - they're intensely optional.
I have almost no concerns about the balance of Dragon articles, but lots of the stuff in them is pretty niche (as IMO it should be!) While they're neat additions, you could probably play for years and never miss them.
I think Core is basically up to what the DM allows and everyone agrees on.
For me personally, I'd say all PHBs, DMGs and MMs are Core, and if you are playing a specific setting (like FR or Eberron) then those books would be "core" for those campaigns. Then again, as DM, I allow just about anything, so my definition of "core" doesn't really affect me and my group anyway. But that's the definition I'd use.
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Alignment is what you are when no one is watching. -Yakoska, fellow D&D player.
It makes me sad that so many people disregard the magazines for perceived balance issues.
I disregard them because most of my players won't put up with the MMO pay-to-play nonsense of a monthly fee to play an offline game. Our games are "just" published books.
Almost every book has a small percentage of bad things in it - just as true for the PHB as for Dragon #371 or whatever. If you've got the character builder I'd suggest letting it all be used for character options (feats, etc) with the caveat to block anything that is excessively powerful (or weak) compared to the rest of the party. For items I'd advise the DM control that, whatever works for you guys.
Personally, if I were going to bother to exclude anything it would be a minor set of powers here and there (Storm of Blades kinda thing), superior weapons across the board, a couple bad items from AV like Bloodclaw and Reckless... oh and I'd make a rule for penalties not stacking to take care of all the damn save penalty things.
1. No dragonmark feats
2. No forgotten realms backgrounds
3. If you want to buy a specific magic item out of the AV, ask me at least 24 hours before the session.
4. If you want anything outside of purchasable books (dragon/dungeon magazine or third party stuff) ask me a least 24 hours before the session.
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While I think they're excellent - particularly Arcane Power - they're intensely optional.
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