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I hit a troll with Dragonfire Tar, which does no damage except for 5 ongoing fire.
The troll takes ongoing damage at the start of its turn, but also does regeneration at the start of its turn. Which happens first (does it just choose whichever)?
Am I correct in thinking that ongoing damage is NOT done with the intial hit as well?
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In the PHB, there is a numbered list of effects that can take place at the start of your turn (I can't think of the page). There are two schools of thought on this one.
1) The numbered list is intended to a sequence of events (though that's never explicitly mentioned). In this instance, ongoing damage happens before regeneration.
2) The list is just a list of the effects, but does not specify any required order. In the vacuum of not knowing which must be first, normally people allow the person affected to choose the order.
I'm in camp 1 myself. To me a numbered list at least implies order, where there is no rule to support camp 2, only lack of rules.
IIRC, a 4e designer said that it was the players choice as to the option. I can't remember the source, but I'm sure I read that somewhere and that is how we play it. Perhaps someone nice enough can give you the source.
In the PHB, there is a numbered list of effects that can take place at the start of your turn (I can't think of the page). There are two schools of thought on this one.
1) The numbered list is intended to a sequence of events (though that's never explicitly mentioned). In this instance, ongoing damage happens before regeneration.
2) The list is just a list of the effects, but does not specify any required order. In the vacuum of not knowing which must be first, normally people allow the person affected to choose the order.
I'm in camp 1 myself. To me a numbered list at least implies order, where there is no rule to support camp 2, only lack of rules.
When this question was asked regarding a PC, WotC's official answer was "Do it in the order most beneficial to the PC."
I think it only fair to apply the same standard to the monsters, myself. So I'd say the answer is "If it makes a difference, whichever order is best for the creature suffering the effect, that's the order you go with."
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
When this question was asked regarding a PC, WotC's official answer was "Do it in the order most beneficial to the PC."
I think it only fair to apply the same standard to the monsters, myself. So I'd say the answer is "If it makes a difference, whichever order is best for the creature suffering the effect, that's the order you go with."
I think setting a troll on fire would deactivate it's regeneration, as is the spirit of classic D&D trolls. I see no reason why Dragonfire Tar should not have a net effect on a troll while an alchemist fire should.
I think setting a troll on fire would deactivate it's regeneration, as is the spirit of classic D&D trolls. I see no reason why Dragonfire Tar should not have a net effect on a troll while an alchemist fire should.
It does have some effect even if applied after; it prevents regeneration NEXT round. But I would apply it in the first round, simply because it lessens bookkeeping.
I'd also interpret "apply it in whatever order is more beneficial to the PCs" as applying to monsters too - apply effects to monsters in the order most beneficial to the PCs.
__________________ Carl Cramér
Member of the Netbook of Feats review board.
It makes for more consistency over the long run and people have more of a baseline for how to resolve effects at the start and end of their turns. It speeds up play a bit (as we're used to it by now), and we don't get weird situations where a troll sheathed in flames still regenerates.
And yes, ongoing damage is only applied at the start of the target's turn, not when the ongoing damage is first bestowed on the target.
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