D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
That is, is there anywhere (official) any magic runes, or gemstones, or whatever that can contain an enchantment like "+2" or +1 Flaming"?
I know Adventurer's Vault is discussing handing out item upgrades as treasure? But it does not actually describe or list how it's done.
Sometimes, spontaneous levelling-up of your gear is fine. But sometimes you as the DM want to present a menu of choices ("you can get a +1 to either your sword, your armor or your cloak of resistance") and how then to do that while avoiding any metagame out-of-game discussions?
Is there any in-game tangible representations of the enchantments of the game? Things that can be touched, carried, bought, looted, lost etc?
I believe the answer to your question is no, nothing official - just house rules and stuff.
I don't know the details of it, but what were components for warforged (in some dragon magazine article in fall of last year)? -- could something similar be done for magic items (again, i don't even know what they did, just going from memory so it may not even be close, mechanically, to what you're looking for)
Though I was curious on this point that you said ...
Quote:
Sometimes, spontaneous levelling-up of your gear is fine. But sometimes you as the DM want to present a menu of choices ("you can get a +1 to either your sword, your armor or your cloak of resistance") and how then to do that while avoiding any metagame out-of-game discussions?
That's kind of what the enchant magic ritual is for, so it isn't just spontaneous, you have to do something to it.
Having said that, if you did implement such a house rule to tangible upgrade components, you could make that and the ritual work in tandem (say that part of the ritual includes the cost and time for setting the component upgrade; this might work best if you're saying all items have to work this way) or else say that some magic swords have slots for magical stones in their hilt (this would work if you wanted to allow the 'default book method' via rituals to work in addition to a component type rule), etc...
..anyway, just rambling thoughts off the top of my head.
__________________ If you're bored and like to follow links provided by random strangers, check out my ENWorld Blog http://www.enworld.org/forum/blogs/fba827/
It will have campaign logs and random thoughts...
I think having it work out as "Scrolls of +1 enchantedness" or "Enchant Item lvl13" is a good way to do it. Just have the all costs for the item already be within the scroll, then they just need their ritual caster (or the local priest) to cast it upon the item of their choosing. Boom. Or you can just give them a scroll of enchant item, a pile of gold, and ritual caster NPC. The end result is the same, the fun is up to you.
I believe the answer to your question is no, nothing official - just house rules and stuff.
Thank you.
Perhaps I should clarify...:
Residuum is fine - sometimes.
Other times its complete freedom (essentially allowing the party ritualist to create anything his character knows of, which might be everything from every book in some groups...) isn't what you want.
Instead, if you want to be able to offer, say, the selection between either Flaming, Frost or Lightning - but no other enchantments - then the loot pile or merchant or whatever needs something tangible...
This could be a houserule scroll, but then it could as well be that the "merchant" is instead a runesmith offering the choice of three different runes. Simply because a rune might look and feel more exciting...
This way a character could purchase/steal/etc one of the runes and only then apply it to the weapon of his choice.
Reason I'm thinking along these tracks is to be able to provide treasure that is useful to as many members of my party as possible. (I'm not doing wish lists; and I don't want to hand out completely tailored items either - these tend to be useful only for one single party member, thus making the after-combat divvying-up-the-loot discussions less interesting... )
Now, a rune (or magical gemstone to be set into the weapon) needs limits, right?
I mean, you can't just provide any old "Frost Rune" - it must be tied to a specific enchantment bonus? And it must override any previous magic of the item (like per the Transfer Enchantment Ritual)...
I like that idea -- I was never a fan of "you craft an item, or , here's a store, pick anything you want out of books X, Y, Z of your level or lower" (which is what it usually eventually boils down to once players get the enchant item ritual in their hands)
I did something similar in AD&D (it was "power jewels" that could be placed on weapons and other items), but I haven't yet done anything similar for 4th edition since my group was still fairly fresh to the edition when we started the current campaign. I would most likely be doing something very similar to what you're asking about (and any other house rules) when the next campaign rolls around.
__________________ If you're bored and like to follow links provided by random strangers, check out my ENWorld Blog http://www.enworld.org/forum/blog.php?u=807
It will have campaign logs and random thoughts...
_Does_ the game need them, though? Maybe yours does, but does mine?
Similar items (weapon/armor crystals) have been a (very) late addition in 3E and I'm still not entirely happy about the way they were balanced. I'm not sure I want them in 4E (yet).
Instead, if you want to be able to offer, say, the selection between either Flaming, Frost or Lightning - but no other enchantments - then the loot pile or merchant or whatever needs something tangible...
It sounds like you're trying to do this without it feeling artificial. Good luck. Your best bet is to hide the hand waving behind an NPC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhaelen
Similar items (weapon/armor crystals) have been a (very) late addition in 3E and I'm still not entirely happy about the way they were balanced. I'm not sure I want them in 4E (yet).
They weren't even close to being balanced. They were so cheap and so good people would regularly have a bag of them. If you let them.
I dunno... giving them an item whose magical property is something like this:
"Short Rest (Consumable): Select one weapon, armour, or cloak. You spend a while binding this runestone to the target item. The item's enchantment is altered, as though via the Transfer Enchantment ritual, to the appropriate one of the following:
- Flaming Weapon +1
- (Heavy Armour) Whitefire Armour +1 [as per Whiteflame Armour, but swap fire and radiant in its powers, and add cold damage to the possible types it can adopt; lvl5]
- (Light Armour) Flamecut Armour +1 [as per Bloodcut Armour, but the resistance granted is 10 vs all but fire, 15 vs fire; lvl5]
- Flamedrinker Shield
- Cape of the Mountebank, Flame Red"
... would be perfectly reasonable. Come up with a shortlist of items which will be useful to various people in the party, and let them argue it out.
I've also used this kind of construction, limiting it to the people in the actual party:
"Orb of The Grey Eye. Zazmond the Arcane: This orb serves as a +2 implement for your wizard powers. Minor Action (Encounter) - you throw the orb into the air; make a Strength ability check. The orb goes straight up into the air some number of squares and hovers there until the end of your next turn. While it's in the air, your spells originate from the orb rather than yourself, and all your spell ranges are increased by the same number of squares. The height, and range increase, depend on the Strength check: 0-15, 1 square; 16-20, 2 squares; 21-25, 3 squares; 26+, four squares. Brunnel the Swordmage: If you affix this to the pommel of a sword, then you can use its enhancement bonus in place of your sword's enhancement bonus, when using the sword as an implement. In addition, you can use the Artificer level 5 daily power "Dancing Weapon" as an item daily power of this orb, affecting the attached sword. Omar the Bold: If you affix this in the center of your shield, then the shield provides +2 to your defenses against fear, charm, or psychic attacks."
That sort of thing. It's more work, but it's pretty fun too.
_Does_ the game need them, though? Maybe yours does, but does mine?
Similar items (weapon/armor crystals) have been a (very) late addition in 3E and I'm still not entirely happy about the way they were balanced. I'm not sure I want them in 4E (yet).
Well, if you play with player wish lists and stuff like that I don't think you do need them.
But I'm thinking they would make a great DM tool to hand out specific and evocative treasure while keeping things as flexible as possible
In other words, adding value to the game.
I know nothing of the 3E counterparts, and I refuse to buy the argument "let's skip them in 4E, they were broken in 3E"... Nothing suggests WotC will make that same mistake twice!
I dunno... giving them an item whose magical property is something like this:
"Short Rest (Consumable): Select one weapon, armour, or cloak. You spend a while binding this runestone to the target item. The item's enchantment is altered, as though via the Transfer Enchantment ritual, to the appropriate one of the following:
- Flaming Weapon +1
- (Heavy Armour) Whitefire Armour +1 [as per Whiteflame Armour, but swap fire and radiant in its powers, and add cold damage to the possible types it can adopt; lvl5]
- (Light Armour) Flamecut Armour +1 [as per Bloodcut Armour, but the resistance granted is 10 vs all but fire, 15 vs fire; lvl5]
- Flamedrinker Shield
- Cape of the Mountebank, Flame Red"
... would be perfectly reasonable. Come up with a shortlist of items which will be useful to various people in the party, and let them argue it out.
Thanks for your constructive suggestion (a first for the thread! )
However, I don't see why I should need to write down a shortlist. Preferably I would like something simpler, like
A rune of "Flaming +1". Apply to any weapon you can normally apply Flaming to.
-or-
A rune of "Flaming +1". Apply to any weapon.
-or-
A rune of "Flaming +1". Apply to any weapon or implement.
-or-
A rune of "Flaming +1". Apply to any item.
Using Flaming as a convenient example here. I'm fully aware the last suggestion is broken if it makes sense at all.
Always remember that the players won't get to manufacture any rune they want. So I as the DM gets to keep track of which enchantments they get to apply to non-standard stuff.
(Essentially browsing through the Fighter and Wizard CharOp build guides gives me a rough indication of which weapon and implement enchantments to avoid for this purpose )
Thanks for your constructive suggestion (a first for the thread! )
A rune of "Flaming +1". Apply to any weapon.
Why not just do this? Mechanically, this one is just a restricted (to Flaming) version of a scroll of Enchant Magic Item bundled with 1000 gp of residuum.
I guess what I'm saying, is that the game doesn't technically have "specific enchantments in item form", but making such things seems like such a small modification of the rules I don't see why I'd ever want WOTC to waste space printing up info on it. In other words, if you want to give your players a Flaming weapon without actually dictating the weapon type to them, what's keeping you from just going ahead and doing it? The rules already give you guidance on how much such an "item" should be worth and how long it should take to apply. I'm really having difficulty understanding what more you're looking for.
Instead, if you want to be able to offer, say, the selection between either Flaming, Frost or Lightning - but no other enchantments - then the loot pile or merchant or whatever needs something tangible...
This sounds like a very story dependent item (you're offering the players a choice which is somewhat tied to a story element), am I correct? If so I'd run this sort of thing less as a consumable and more as a thematic story element. Say they find an altar of elemental attuning, but the materials component is limited. There are three "vials" that the players can choose to put the components in, each corresponding to a particular element. Once the components are expended they've consumed their "one shot". Further use would be impossible due to lack of components or perhaps other story elements (cave in where the altar is kept, etc...)
Just a thought.
Ultimately though limiting choice like that is a very story themed item, and thus I think the story should solve the problem, not mechanics.
CapnZapp, have you looked at Dragonshard augments at all from the Eberron Player's guide? They might not be exactly what you want, but they sound like they are in the ballpark.
__________________ Law's Game Style: Storyteller 83%, Tactician 75%, Specialist 67%, Method Actor 58%, Power Gamer 33%, Casual Gamer 25%, Butt-Kicker 17%
CapnZapp, have you looked at Dragonshard augments at all from the Eberron Player's guide? They might not be exactly what you want, but they sound like they are in the ballpark.
Dragonshards == FF7 materia, which I'm completely for
I would go the gem route. You could either have natural magic items, i.e. the stuff we have now, and "masterwork" items with no other property other than a single gem slot or just the masterwork stuff.
Then you hand out a weapon widget of +1 flaming or an armor widget of +1 whatever. They only work on the type of item that that enchantment would normally work on.
This would allow the party to more freely decide who get's what upgrade. Granted, I'd make it take a short rest to swap just to prevent the inevitable combat swapping.
At higher levels it would even eliminate the whole regular armor vs masterwork magic armor armor thing. Take a widget, place it on the masterwork plate (that in this system is just regular plate with a single slot) and with a flash, a poof and some trumpets playing in the background, you have +6 godplate.
)
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
