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A new player to my game is asking. Apparently, since it's a conjuration it can float in mid-air. Does that mean it can be conjured in any location in the 3d space? Can it fly?
If this is a DM discretion situation, are there any reasons I should rule that it can't? Potential abuses? I could see it severely impacting encounters with flying enemies, such as dragons.
Spirit beasts can't move, so they can't really fly either. They can be repositioned by using Call Spirit Companion again, so I guess the default assumption is that they teleport to the new position. They can't carry stuff/people or interact with the physical world except by using powers, so it isn't an imbalance to allow them to float or fly to their new position.
Yes, I think it can be conjured in mid-air. A dragon that can't figure out a way to circumvent this is a stupid dragon that deserves what he's getting! Since the Wizard can attack it with Magic Missiles and Rangers (or anyone else) can fire arrows from this kind of distance, it is not unreasonable to allow Shamans to act at this distance as well.
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Spirit beasts can't move, so they can't really fly either. They can be repositioned by using Call Spirit Companion again, so I guess the default assumption is that they teleport to the new position.
Not quite. Spirits have no move speed of their own, but "when you take a move action, you can also move the spirit a number of squares equal to your speed."
Uh, spirit companions can move whenever you use a move action.
Also, conjurations generally don't really "fly" since they're not creatures. Some may "float"... which means in the end I think it's pretty much up to the DM's discretion. I tend to think, though, that if they were really meant to fly the conjuration would specifically be given a fly speed. Would you allow a wizard to conjure a Flaming Sphere in mid-air?
Hm... I didn't quite hit the text regarding spirit beasts moving (I've yet to see a shaman in my campaign, so I admit I'm not very boned up on them... I only recently discovered that beastmaster rangers can move both themselves and their companion with a move action).
Still, with the Call Companion ability at-will ability, I see no reason why it can't just be used again to put it somewhere else within 20 squares as a minor action. A lot better than pushing it around 5-6 squares. Again, I could be missing something here! Is Call Companion limited use?
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Still, with the Call Companion ability at-will ability, I see no reason why it can't just be used again to put it somewhere else within 20 squares as a minor action. A lot better than pushing it around 5-6 squares. Again, I could be missing something here! Is Call Companion limited use?
No, but it's a minor action. While moving it when you move is essentially a free action. I agree that re-summoning the companion is useful, it shouldn't be the only way you move it.
Understood. If the shaman's staying still, might as well resummon the spirit and put it where you want it. If the shaman's moving and just wants it to keep pace (or go somewhere else pretty close), move the spirit.
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As for Flaming Spheres, no reason you can't put them in mid-air. It's usually harder to put it in the middle of a bunch of foes that way, though, because foes rarely cluster in the air (not if they have any common sense, anyway)!
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As for Flaming Spheres, no reason you can't put them in mid-air. It's usually harder to put it in the middle of a bunch of foes that way, though, because foes rarely cluster in the air (not if they have any common sense, anyway)!
Say your enemies are set up like this:
1|2|3
------
4|5|6
------
7|8|9
If the wizard could conjure right on top of enemy #5, it would technically be adjacent to all 9 of them!
This is what I'm thinking will occur with the spirit beast; a lot of the healing and buffs occur when the beast is adjacent to allies. I'm sure this thing will be hopping monsters and floating on PCs heads.
Last edited by tmatk; 18th July 2009 at 10:45 AM..
As a movable conjuration, you can move the conjuration in any direction. It can be moved vertically if need be.
It does not have a speed, so a fly speed would also be irrelevant to it; those are creature traits. It moves like any other power effect that can be moved.
Yeah, and there's also the weird ruling (by CustServ, I believe), that blasts/bursts essentially extend infinitely far upward. To me, putting a flaming sphere in midair sounds absurd, but it's just not well-defined in the rules. Similarly, putting a spirit on top of allies to get more to be adjacent seems like an abuse of the intent, but it's up to the DM to rule.
Anyway, for the shaman's spirit case, it'll make some things more powerful to call it in midair but it's hard for me to imagine it completely breaking the game. And I guess as for the Flaming Sphere, the very similar summon spell (Summon Fire Warrior) has a fly speed, so there you go. It's probably OK after all.
Quick question though, what do you see as the difference between summoning and conjuring?
A bunch of things, but mostly the fact that summoning creates something that acts in almost every way like a regular creature, while a conjuration isn't much like a creature at all. So, a conjuration being able to exist in mid-air unaffected by gravity is fine, while a summoned creature would fall to the ground (if it could be summoned in mid-air in the first place.
The use of the wrong term makes it look like the person answering the question doesn't get the difference between the two.
Unfortunately, there isn’t an official answer for the situation you describe. I’ve passed along this conversation to the game’s developers. Hopefully, we’ll see an update or FAQ entry covering it soon, but until then it’s up to the campaign’s Dungeon Master to decide. The DM is always the final arbiter on how they want their campaign to run. Have fun!
I guess it's up to each DM. Personally, I'm with keeping them on the ground.
A bunch of things, but mostly the fact that summoning creates something that acts in almost every way like a regular creature, while a conjuration isn't much like a creature at all. So, a conjuration being able to exist in mid-air unaffected by gravity is fine, while a summoned creature would fall to the ground (if it could be summoned in mid-air in the first place.
The use of the wrong term makes it look like the person answering the question doesn't get the difference between the two.
Can you support your claim that this is indeed a difference between conjurations and summons according to the game rules?
Imho, it doesn't matter if you're dealing with conjurations or summons, 'mid-air' isn't a valid target destination for either.
The PHB2 states - "The conjuration does not need to be supported by a solid surface, so it can float in the air."
I guess it's up to each DM. Personally, I'm with keeping them on the ground.
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