Divine Power should be called Paladin Power.

[Horatio]

Stop comparing at-wills only, especially at higher levels.

In a combat that lasts about 6 rounds, heroes will use (let's say) 4 encounter powers, 1 daily power and 1 at - will power.

Most of the time, all strikers excpet the avenger and rogue will miss half of the attacks, while avenger will miss one, rogue two.

Now do the math again, with additional 4[w] or 5[w] in favor of the rogue (aehm, 5d4 + 3d6) and the avenger (8d6 + 10d6). Results? I'm pretty sure all could see that.

[Garthanos]

That sounds like a fast battle.. (isnt 10 rounds normal?) but I am not used to having enough strikers in my group... so I am just curious ;-) because it looks like that is going to change... a warlock and an avenger and a paladin.

[karolusb]

Originally Posted by Horatio

Stop comparing at-wills only, especially at higher levels.

In a combat that lasts about 6 rounds, heroes will use (let's say) 4 encounter powers, 1 daily power and 1 at - will power.

Most of the time, all strikers except the avenger and rogue will miss half of the attacks, while avenger will miss one, rogue two.

Now do the math again, with additional 4[w] or 5[w] in favor of the rogue (aehm, 5d4 + 3d6) and the avenger (8d6 + 10d6). Results? I'm pretty sure all could see that.

The problem with infinite like for like comparisons is, well, they are infinite, take quite a while to perform, and you can always say that if it had been done differently the results would be different. Regardless:

6 rounds seems fast to me, but looking at the numbers it is certainly possible.

Ranger vs Avenger at level 16 burst damage sample. Vs the howling blade, the only 16th level skirmisher in the monster builder (Avenger is better vs higher level ranger vs lower, seems like a balanced comparison for my purposes). 6 rounds of combat, 1 daily, no action points. I assume 1 ally adjacent but not flanking (if it were flanking the ranger would get a much more significant boost than the avenger).

Avenger total damage 200.9 (Whirling Blades, Blade Step, Oath of Weakness, Deadly Stride, Fated Doom, Focused Fury(1)) Average DPR in the Sample 33.48, If he had dropped either of his other at will the continuing effect would have granted him 1.8-5-10 additional damage per round (aspect of fury is a truly amazing power), nice but not enough to level the playing field.

Ranger total damage 315.2 (Claws of the Griffon, Crossbody Parry, Attacks on the Run, Disruptive Strike, Twin Strike (x4), Fox's Cunning) Average DPR in the Sample 52.53 I didn't run the full math, but it appears that if the ranger were scimitar instead of bastard sword he would have bumped up his damage marginally.

Unless they dump more daily powers for every additional round the combat lasts the avenger puts out another 22.8 and the ranger an additional 30.1. If I decide to ban bracers of mandatory damage the avenger loses 21.84 total damage, the ranger loses 89.6 (yikes). Even so the ranger would win by 26%.

Hmm if this is the scenario that most favors the Avenger, than the Avenger is perhaps in worse shape than I thought.