Re-skinning Cleric Powers: Avandra

[roguerouge]

So in my third session of 4e, my Warlord died from a gnome crit sneak attack while searching a graveyard for the lost mentor. (You know the module.) Anyway, I'm starting a new character, because the point of playing this campaign is to get a feel for this edition.

So I'm going to be playing a cleric of Avandra, with an emphasis on luck. The only problem is that the descriptions for the cleric powers all read like Pelor's granting the powers: light lances and silvery motes and beams of light. But I want my cleric to feel different. I want to emphasize the role of luck and chance and change.

So I figured that others must have felt this way and come up with god-specific descriptions for the powers. Anyone do this for Avandra in their campaign? How do you describe the at-wills, encounters and dailies for different gods?

[roguerouge]

So is the lack of response that nobody does this and the community would (not) be interested or is it that so many people were trying to get in to EnWorld that nobody could?

[Lord Ernie]

The latter, I'm betting... well, besides that this is a rules forum, and reflavouring isn't exactly a rules issue.

I'm playing a cleric of the Raven Queen who's big on the whole Fate and Death thing, so I've been reflavouring stuff as I took it. For example, Astral Seal (from DP) points out the enemy's weakness and their impending doom (hence the -2 to defenses and the healing for party members), and Sacred Flame as preserving someone's fate ("It's not your time to die yet / be stunned /...).

For Avandra, luck would indeed be the way to go. I'd see buffing and debuffing as handing out good/bad luck to your allies and enemies respectively; some of the Immediate Interrupt heals, like Return From Death's Door (again DP), would work very well as a 'lucky' element (cfr. "By a thousand in one chance, my sigar case was right in the place where the blow struck.").

[Garthanos]

I dont currently have any cleric players (Paladin radiant effects as "silvery white fires of bahamut").

I would definitely say reskinning powers is a rules discussion thing, but... it's pretty much rules as written and intended to do whatever works for you and people seem to prefer controversy ;-) for their discussions here.
But from a sharing stand point I would love to see what people have come up with and Raven Queen and Avandra both seem prime candidates for not being just another "god of light"

[Obryn]

I just find it tough to use the site - but at least now we're back to where we were last week, give or take.

Anyway, reskinning can be a blast - but first I'd like to know what powers you have. Particularly your at-wills.

-O

[roguerouge]

First level half elf devoted cleric of Avandra. His current powers are:

At-wills: Sacred Flame, Lance of Faith
Encounter: Eyebite (racial power), Divine Glow
Daily: Beacon of Hope
Class powers: Healing Word, Channel Divinity (Divine Fortune, Turn Undead)

For a feat, I'm thinking of taking Pact Initiate: Star Pact (Dire Radiance)

So, you can see my dilemma here.

Also, if I take the Pact Initiate feat, do I also get Fate of the Void, which works off Warlock's Curse?

And, yeah, it was a tough call whether to put it here or in the general forum.

[Obryn]

Starting with the last - When you take a multiclass feat, you only get what's specified in the feat. In this case, you don't get any Warlock pact boons. Which is fine, because I don't think you can curse anyone anyway.

As for other re-skins, Avandra is kind of an odd duck. She's all about luck, adventuring, travel, and trade. The luck part makes a few of your powers pretty easy. Anything that lets you give a bonus to your ally can be represented as a fluke of chance or a tilting of probability.

With that said, it will be tough to get away from the whole beams-of-divine-energy shtick. I know it seems like a very Pelor-ian take on the subject, but you can kind of look at it as channeling energy from the Astral Sea.

Lance of Faith - Pretty simple. You're still doing beams of divine energy, but you're also improving the luck of one of your allies, manifesting in a bonus to-hit. Say, the enemy steps on a random pebble, or your ally randomly hits a weak point in their armor.

Sacred Flame - Again, it's tough to get away from beams of divine energy here, but you also give one of your allies a fluke chance to shake off a condition. Again, how they do this is kind of up to your group - if they're on fire, a rogue gust of wind could blow it out or something.

Divine Glow - The combat advantage aspect is once again a manifestation of misfortune on your enemy's part. They might get caught up in their cloak briefly, or they might get suddenly distracted by a bat flying into their hair.

Beacon of Hope - No idea on this one, but it's very cleric-y already, and not really dedicated to a specific god.


Kinda lame, I know, but it's a start.

-O

[Garthanos]

I would say the beams of light energy dont have to be beams ;-) a sparkle of light energy where really bad luck is happening could bring in the radiant effect a rock from a nearby parapit takes on a glow dislodges and falls on them ... is one example (the glow fades after a bit.). I have described a cleave as forcing an attack from one bad guy to hit his ally.... so surely avandras hand just leaves a glow behind. Your enemy winds up to attack you but his weapon glows disconcertingly injuring an adjacent ally. This is definitely the dynamic skinning model though and I think Avandra works perfectly for it... pre-thinking up how to make those luck skinned glowing attacks sounds necessary... if you want to avoid laser beams effect.

[Garthanos]

Change is good....

Avandras light shines across your enemies skin siering as it attempts to reform it into a more divine state wounds from this appear to flicker and glow... your dead enemy is purified in flesh if not in spirit.

[Starfox]

In 4E, I feel divine characters are channeling the powers in the Astral Sea more than those of any specific deity. And the astral sea is all about luminous tendrils and radiant energy. Avandra is giving you her stamp of approval and lending you her key to astral energies, not actually giving you powers directly. This way, you can explain the rather bland creatures divine casters have always been in DnD.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the domain options in Divine Power - the explanation above is a kind of lifeline to overcome the blandness. But many games does interesting, deity-specific clerics much better than DnD, most particularily Rune Quest.

[roguerouge]

Beacon of Hope: Enemies begin to doubt themselves and the situation, struggling through a momentary premonition of disaster. Your allies get a great feeling that everything's going to turn out all right. At times, they can almost feel the dice of chance coming up boxcars.

If I'm going to have to use "radiant" as a literal term, I think it might be neat to have it modeled more along the lines of 3e's Chaos Hammer, which was essentially a rainbow-colored bouncy ball of pain that ricocheted everywhere. So, the attack roll isn't about aiming but about luck as to whether it hits anything useful. Perhaps that works best for Lance of Faith, which could be renamed as Chaos Hammer.

[Garthanos]

Originally Posted by Starfox

I was pretty underwhelmed by the domain options in Divine Power - the explanation above is a kind of lifeline to overcome the blandness.

Sigh nothing can over come the might of blandness - save perhaps blatant excessive imagination....

Clerics are not necessary the optimal archetype for a priest of X.

A priest of the raven queen I would build as an Avenger or Warlock and only once in a blue moon as a cleric.

I allow damage type swapping during the initial character build so Raven Queens clerics can do necrotic effects and Bahamuts can do fire effects.

I might be inclined to reenergize an avandra clerics attack powers as force ... so they can easier be described as accidental damage ..(just feels more like avandra than the astral sea leaking in).

A priest of Avandra I would be inclined to build as a wizard many cantrip effects can be very much extraordinary events of luck working out in your favor.

Clerics could be given a free proficiency in a weapon associated with their deity and I have a ritual to sanctify a weapon so you can make a magic weapon act as an implement.

[Garthanos]

Eyebite I would skin as

Acursed Distraction
Your enemy become seriously distracted by something and loses track of you ... desparate to refocus on the fight their mind is filled by the insidious belief the gods may be out to get them.(as luck would have it they are).

[Ryujin]

The flavour text is largely meaningless. It's the mechanics that matter. If you want to say that a power gives the opponent -2 to actions because he keep getting hit in the face with pink plush bunnies, then go to town.

[Garthanos]

Originally Posted by Ryujin

The flavour text is largely meaningless. It's the mechanics that matter. If you want to say that a power gives the opponent -2 to actions because he keep getting hit in the face with pink plush bunnies, then go to town.

So re-read the title of this thread - now what did you exactly add to it? And with the attitude of dismissal you are presenting did it make sense for you
to post on a thread about reskinning?

[Garthanos]

Originally Posted by roguerouge

3e's Chaos Hammer, which was essentially a rainbow-colored bouncy ball of pain that ricocheted everywhere. So, the attack roll isn't about aiming but about luck as to whether it hits anything useful. Perhaps that works best for Lance of Faith, which could be renamed as Chaos Hammer.

Sigh how about ditching the hammer image.. and literally making it rolling the bones (a giant die which bounces around the scenary smashing in to your enemy and exploding in light)... or streamers that bounce about like fireworks.

[Ryujin]

Originally Posted by Garthanos

So re-read the title of this thread - now what did you exactly add to it? And with the attitude of dismissal you are presenting did it make sense for you
to post on a thread about reskinning?

I wasn't being dismissive, so much as expositive. The concept of reskinning is built into the game.

[DonAdam]

Radiant can mean lots of things.

I played a cleric of the Raven Queen that shot light blue spectral energy. Could just as well have been light green.

Presently I'm playing an Avenger of Selune that shoots moonbeams.

[Garthanos]

And one still ends up with the "Lords of Light" rainbow hues or otherwise....
Pelor and Selune... two light sources sure....

but really - Raven Queen? I have difficulty picturing it - granted undeath is anathema to death and she would certainly support an attack which purges it but necrotic should be the meat and drink of a raven queen cleric/avenger/paladin/invoker.

[Nifft]

Luck powers, hmm. I recommend you check out Divine Power.


At-Wills: Astral Seal (Divine Power) and Gaze of Defiance (PH Heroes 1). The latter is in the Compendium; it deals Psychic damage and grants allies a bonus to attacks against the target. The former is a black cloud of bad luck that hinders the target.

Human Bonus: Sacred Flame (PHB), because saving throws represent good luck.
Half-Elf Bonus: Sun Strike (Invoker; PHB2): the slide effect means the target trips and stumbles in the direction of your choice; or Visions of Blood (Invoker; DP) which imposes bad luck.

Encounter 1: Bane (DP). You take their luck and give it to allies.

Daily 1: Astral Condemnation (DP): the target's damage sucks (sustain minor) because of terrible luck; or Font of Tears (DP): create a huge zone where opponents suffer a -2 to attacks.

Utility 2: Armor of Faith (DP, call it "Armor of Luck") or Divine Skill (DP).

Encounter 3: Hymn of Resurgence (DP); foes suffer penalties, allies get temp hp or a bonus saving throw.

Cheers, -- N