Combat Challenge + Warpriest's Challenge

[bonus]

A fighter's combat challenge says that when a marked enemy shifts or makes an attack that doesn't include you, you make a melee basic attack against the enemy.

The warpriest 16th level paragon feature Warpriest's Challenge says that when a marked enemy attacks someone other than you or shifts, you get an opportunity attack.

But what happens if you're a fighter with the warpriest paragon path? Do the free attacks you make at your marked enemy count as normal attacks or attacks of opportunity? Because fighters have Combat Superiority, when an enemy shifts away from you and you whack it with an attack of opportunity, does it stop moving?

[tiornys]

The attack from Combat Challenge isn't an opportunity attack; it's an immediate interrupt. Combat Superiority doesn't apply.

If you're a Fighter/Warpriest and an enemy marked by your Warpriest's Challenge tries to shift, you get to make both a Combat Challenge immediate interrupt attack, and an opportunity attack from Warpriest. The CC attack won't affect the enemy's movement, but if you hit with the Warpriest attack, Combat Superiority does kick in since it's an opportunity attack, and you do cancel the enemy's movement.

(note that you get at most one immediate interrupt per round, but you can take an opportunity action on each of the other combatant's turns if provoked.

t~

[bonus]

Ah, so you get to make two attacks, one immediate interrupt and one opportunity attack? That sounds pretty rad. Are you sure though?

[tiornys]

Originally Posted by bonus

Ah, so you get to make two attacks, one immediate interrupt and one opportunity attack? That sounds pretty rad. Are you sure though?

Yep. Being a Fighter/Warpriest gives enemies a lot of incentive to respect your mark.

t~

edit: look closely at the rules for opportunity actions vs. immediate actions. They coexist and don't overlap, nothing prevents them from both being triggered by the same event, and nothing prevents a character from using both if they're triggered.

[pascalnz]

yup. it is THE stickiest build you can get. gotta love it

[bonus]

Haha, awesome! I was thinking of posting my planned build for critique here, is that OK or should that be done in another forum?

[tiornys]

Originally Posted by bonus

Haha, awesome! I was thinking of posting my planned build for critique here, is that OK or should that be done in another forum?

This is the right place for it, unless it's using a lot of house rules.

t~

[bonus]

Aha, cool.
Anyway, I'm playing a fighter in a party that also has an archer ranger and a warlock. Two strikers and a defender, not very balanced, so I want to be as sticky and tough as possible, while also being able to give healing to myself and my allies.

So, I'd start as a human fighter, stats being STR 18, 13 CON, 14 DEX, 10 INT, 13 WIS, 10 CHA. I'd take all the at-will powers except Reaping Strike at 1st level, also Steel Serpent Strike as the encounter power and Comeback Strike as the daily. My feats of choice would be Blade Opportunist (+2 to opportunity attacks with heavy blade) and Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade). I'd use a sword and a shield.

At level 2 I'd take the Cleric multiclass, and the other feats and powers I'd choose like this:

2. Unstoppable, Initiate of the Faith
3. Dance of Steel
4. +1 CON, +1 WIS, Novice Power (swap Steel Serpent Strike for Healing Strike)
5. Dizzying Blow
6. Unbreakable, Durable
7. Iron Bulwark
8. +1 CON, +1 STR, Acolyte Power (swap Durable for Divine Vigor)
9. Victorious Surge
10. Into the Fray, Armor Proficiency (Plate)
11. +1 to all
Warpriest Paragon Path (Warpriest's Stratey, Warpriest's Training), Battle Cry
Heavy Blade Opportunity
12. Battle Favor, Armor Specialization (Plate)
13. Replace Iron Bulwark with Storm of Blows
14. +1 DEX, +1 WIS, Uncanny Dodge
15. Replace Dizzying Blow with Dragon's Fangs
16. Iron Warrior, Shield Specialization
17. Replace Storm of Blows with Vorpal Tornado
18. +1 STR, +1 DEX, Devastating Critical
19. --
20. Battle Pyres, Danger Sense
21. +1 to all, Demigod Epic Destiny, Heavy Blade Mastery

What do you guys think? Two strikers will deal enough damage, so I was just thinking of getting the most flack, keeping the enemies off them and issuing some healing when I can.

[tiornys]

Originally Posted by bonus

Aha, cool.
Anyway, I'm playing a fighter in a party that also has an archer ranger and a warlock. Two strikers and a defender, not very balanced, so I want to be as sticky and tough as possible, while also being able to give healing to myself and my allies.

So, I'd start as a human fighter, stats being STR 18, 13 CON, 14 DEX, 10 INT, 13 WIS, 10 CHA.

It's probably worth dropping your Int or Cha to 8 so you can start with a 14 in Con or Wis. Int and Cha don't really do anything for your character, and the stat points are better spent elsewhere. I favor Int slightly since some Cleric powers care about Cha.

I'd take all the at-will powers except Reaping Strike at 1st level, also Steel Serpent Strike as the encounter power and Comeback Strike as the daily. My feats of choice would be Blade Opportunist (+2 to opportunity attacks with heavy blade) and Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade). I'd use a sword and a shield.

Do you have access to books other than PHB1? I'm going to assume you don't for now.

At level 2 I'd take the Cleric multiclass, and the other feats and powers I'd choose like this:

2. Unstoppable, Initiate of the Faith
3. Dance of Steel
4. +1 CON, +1 WIS, Novice Power (swap Steel Serpent Strike for Healing Strike)

With the exception of your Warpriest powers, your attacks all key off of Str. Increase it at every opportunity. It's your most important stat and it's worthwhile to focus on it. Make the choice between Con and Wis based on how often your DM provokes OA's from you vs. how valuable the extra surge will be to you.

5. Dizzying Blow
6. Unbreakable, Durable

Toughness is usually better than Durable. It gives you 5 HP up front + 1HP per surge you spend, increases your bloodied value, and makes it less likely that you drop in combat. Durable gives you 2x your surge value in HP, but only if you actually spend all of your surges. By this level, you should have a good idea of whether it's usually you or one of the strikers who runs out of surges first. If it's a striker, take Toughness, or possibly Shield Push.

7. Iron Bulwark
8. +1 CON, +1 STR, Acolyte Power (swap Durable for Divine Vigor)

you can't swap a feat for a power You're swapping Unbreakable here, and while I'm not a big fan of Divine Vigor, it might make sense in this party. If one party member tends to run out of surges while the others still have a few, Cure Serious Wounds is likely superior. If you can disengage and reengage readily enough to avoid the OA from a ranged power (and that's a big if), Bastion of Health is your best bet.

9. Victorious Surge
10. Into the Fray, Armor Proficiency (Plate)

It's probably worth losing Acolyte Power and taking Adept Power instead, swapping Victorious Surge for Divine Power. Divine Power is one of the strongest L9 daily powers in the game. Alternately, stick with Scale and take Adept Power instead of Plate proficiency.

11. +1 to all
Warpriest Paragon Path (Warpriest's Stratey, Warpriest's Training), Battle Cry
Heavy Blade Opportunity
12. Battle Favor, Armor Specialization (Plate)
13. Replace Iron Bulwark with Storm of Blows
14. +1 DEX, +1 WIS, Uncanny Dodge

Again, bump Str at every level. You aren't taking Warpriest for the powers, and it's not worth weakening all of your other powers to make those a bit stronger.

15. Replace Dizzying Blow with Dragon's Fangs
16. Iron Warrior, Shield Specialization

Shield Specialization doesn't stack with Plate Specialization. Either just take Shield Spec. and skip Plate Spec., or take Lightning Reflexes instead of Shield Spec.

17. Replace Storm of Blows with Vorpal Tornado
18. +1 STR, +1 DEX, Devastating Critical
19. --
20. Battle Pyres, Danger Sense
21. +1 to all, Demigod Epic Destiny, Heavy Blade Mastery

What do you guys think? Two strikers will deal enough damage, so I was just thinking of getting the most flack, keeping the enemies off them and issuing some healing when I can.

It looks like you're just in the PHB1, and your choices are solid given that. If you have access to other books, there are some other options you'd probably want to look into.

t~

[bonus]

Hey, thanks so much for the advice!
I'll be keeping the stats the way they are due to RP reasons, otherwise I'm going to take your advice. I'll be increasing STR at every step, swap Victorious Surge for Divine Power, I'll lose the plate armor proficiency and stick with scale armor and take Toughness.
Also yeah, we've agreed to play with only PHB1 for now, so I did the best I could with that.

Thanks a lot! If anyone else has any comments please feel free to share.

[Orcus Porkus]

I'm building a level 17 dwarf warpriest right now and was wondering about giving him a halberd and Polearm Gamble. The idea is to put the marked target between a rock and a hard place. He is suffering an awful mark, but if he moves adjacent to attack me, he gets smacked with polearm gamble. If he shifts or attacks someone else, he gets the warpriest challenge OA. If there are other allies adjacent to him (kind of likely) and moves, they smack him.
Also: Power of Skill feat so he can use Righteous Brand on those attacks.
Is that a good concept?

[kerbarian]

Originally Posted by Orcus Porkus

I'm building a level 17 dwarf warpriest right now and was wondering about giving him a halberd and Polearm Gamble. The idea is to put the marked target between a rock and a hard place. He is suffering an awful mark, but if he moves adjacent to attack me, he gets smacked with polearm gamble. If he shifts or attacks someone else, he gets the warpriest challenge OA. If there are other allies adjacent to him (kind of likely) and moves, they smack him.
Also: Power of Skill feat so he can use Righteous Brand on those attacks.
Is that a good concept?

If you're fighting an enemy without reach, you're at reach 2 having marked him (as a warpriest), and an ally is adjacent to him, then there's no way he can attack without provoking an extra attack from someone. You don't even need polearm gamble -- if he attacks your ally, OA via warpriest. If he shifts, OA via warpriest. If he moves, normal OA from your ally. So yeah, sounds like a pretty good setup.

If you don't have one of your allies adjacent to him, though, he can just walk away and attack someone else (though he'd still suffer -2 on it due to the mark).

[Orcus Porkus]

The only trouble is at level 17 so many monsters have reach.