D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
I wanted to multiclass Barbarian/Ranger because I want the utility of the raging and charging abilities mostly. Multiclassing into Ranger looked like a good idea at first. But then comes the two weapon problem.
First, I don't get Two Weapon Fighting. Not a huge deal at first, I could just use offhand weapons and still have my pick of Ranger Powers to swap. But when it comes to Paragon Paths it's a prerequisite (at least in the PHB, I don't have any other books with Ranger Paragon Paths. But I have looked in Martial Power and like the companion - not sure if it has the same problem with paragons.)
The other part of the problem is all but one of the Barbarian at-wills requires a two handed weapon (and the one that doesn't I do not really want). So, even trying to use two weapons has me pretty boned, unless I go versatile and sheath/unsheath an offhander.
The flip side is pretty sweet. None of the barbarian powers past at-wills require two handed weapons, so I'd be perfectly okay with using two weapons the entire time. WTF that's frustrating. Also the Paths are all open.
So it looks like Ranger/Barbarian is the better option, and Barbarian/Ranger is rife with problems. Am I missing something here? Are there Ranger options in other books that avoids this problem?
__________________ "If Buddha played RPG's, he'd play Nobilis."
Ah yes, I forgot to ask about that, as there are a few in the Eberron PG, but no mention of what exactly double weapons let you do (only because I was familiar with their introduction in 3E did I gather that they equipped as a two-hander but allowed you to do off hand strikes). As two-handers, they seem pretty gimped, 1d6 for the double scimitar, unless... does it become 2d6 if you use it as a two handed weapon? Because that would be pretty awesome, and be worth the weapon feat to train it.
__________________ "If Buddha played RPG's, he'd play Nobilis."
unless... does it become 2d6 if you use it as a two handed weapon? Because that would be pretty awesome, and be worth the weapon feat to train it.
No, it does not.
What Ranger stuff in particular did you want? You can do a Ranger that doesn't need Two-Weapons if you pick carefully (Hit and Run works nicely for a Barbarian...
... although I've not made one all the way to 30... it depends on how much Multi-Classing you want.
There is the Hybrid option (as noted above) if your DM approves.
Thanks for the build Erywin, that's some good crunch to chew on.
Mort: Yeah. I went to the game store and flipped through the AV and saw my hope was not to be. But, the double weapons in the AV do have better damage output than the ones in Eberron. So that is one possibility.
As for the powers, I was mainly looking at the level 1s, and the encounter powers that didn't require two weapons were wisdom based (which isn't terrible even for an Elf barbarian, but not ideal). But, you helped remind me that I won't even be able to select any ranger powers until level four at the earliest, so its not so bad as there are a couple of options at level 3. But for example, if you look at the level 5 dailies (in the PHB) they are all either two weapon or ranged, and level 9 only gives you one choice. Perhaps the better option is to consider more utilities? I haven't looked closely at those yet. It was just some frustrating limitations when looking at the lower level attack powers.
Mainly, however, I wanted to test the water to make sure that I wasn't missing something that got around the limitations as I was seeing them in regards to weapon choice. I can at least better decide if this is a path I was to pursue for my character or not. I may stick with a pure barbarian or investigate another class that fits the concept (perhaps Warden or Druid).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort_Q
There is the Hybrid option (as noted above) if your DM approves.
We are doing round robin DMing, so it's all group consensus. But, setting aside that I shy away from playtest rules, I'm also keen on giving multiclass a shake and this combo fits my character concept. Though, hybrid is definitely appealing, if it doesn't work out, I'll just try a pure barbarian as I haven't played one.
__________________ "If Buddha played RPG's, he'd play Nobilis."
The thing is, Two Weapon Fighting (fighting using multiple attacks with smaller weapons) doesn't synergize with the Barbarian style (Hit hard with one single attack from one -big- weapon)
Do you have Martial Power or the Compendium? There are enough powers in Martial Power to keep a *multiclassed* ranger that only wants one weapon caught up. I don't know how you'd do Paragon multiclassing or taking a Ranger path. Hybrid gets even more sketchy. If multiclassing Ranger is so problematic maybe you should consider a different multiclass. Barbarians go well with *a lot*, like Warlords and Fighters and Paladins. . .maybe that is something to consider?
Do you have Martial Power or the Compendium? There are enough powers in Martial Power to keep a *multiclassed* ranger that only wants one weapon caught up. I don't know how you'd do Paragon multiclassing or taking a Ranger path. Hybrid gets even more sketchy. If multiclassing Ranger is so problematic maybe you should consider a different multiclass. Barbarians go well with *a lot*, like Warlords and Fighters and Paladins. . .maybe that is something to consider?
I do have access to DDI now, but I was chewing on Mort's question of what I wanted out of it, and mainly, if I was to be a Barbarian/Ranger, I realized what I wanted most was two weapon style. Until Primal Power*, that's just a poor idea, but because of the ranger powers, but because of the Barbarian at-wills. Going Ranger/Barbarian isn't appealing because I'm interested in the Barbarian class abilities mostly.
I did consider other combinations. Namely, Barbarian/Warden and Barbarian Druid, and I was ambivalent on both, or they had other problems. Paladin and Warlord don't fit the character (plus spreading into Charisma, Int, or Wis is a problem), and we have a pure Fighter, so multiclassing into it isn't something I want to do.
I think ultimately, I'm going to just try out a pure Barbarian, so see how that plays and revisit multiclassing at some other point or in another game.
*Depending on what new at-wills they introduce, of course.
__________________ "If Buddha played RPG's, he'd play Nobilis."
I statted up a Dwarf Ranger/Barbarian last night, and it looked like a solid way to stat up a fun double-waraxe striker. (I'm thinking of it as a classic Dwarf Battlerager, not to be confused with the Fighter feature.) Dwarven Weapon Training + two Waraxes = fun and a remarkable amount of damage. Add in the Adept Training to swap out a daily for a Rage, and it looks like a really enjoyable way of doing things.
Lol, this thread keeps on sending me back to the Character Generator :P Here is a hybrid build at lvl 6, looks kinda fun running around with 2 waraxes and twin striking things, though you don't get the charge stuff from the Barbarian, might try out another build later with it. Again, not optimized as I am still getting used to things. First one is a Hybrid again.
Cheers,
E
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Gardain, level 6
Dwarf, Barbarian|Ranger
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Ranger Fighting Style
Ranger Fighting Style: Two-Blade Fighting Style
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 14, Dex 17, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.
Off topic, but this thread finally got me moving on a character idea I had been throwing around for a few weeks. I'd like to try out a Hybrid Beastmaster, and the class that seems to fit that best, or at least the one that fits the playstyle I like best, is the Warlord. I like it:
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Hogarion Grimstal, level 2
Human, Warlord|Ranger
Hybrid Warlord: Hybrid Warlord Will
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Ranger Fighting Style
Ranger Fighting Style: Beast Mastery (Hybrid)
Beast Companion Type: Wolf
Background: Vadalis Griffon Rider (+2 to Nature)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8.
FEATS
Human: Mark of Handling
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Battle Awareness
POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Wolf Pack Tactics
Hybrid Ranger at-will 1: Circling Strike
Hybrid Warlord at-will 1: Opening Shove
Hybrid encounter 1: Enclose the Prey
Hybrid daily 1: Lead the Attack
Hybrid utility 2: Hunter's Privilege
ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Hide Armor, Halberd, Handaxe (6)
RITUALS
Raise Beast Companion
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
Hybrid rules absolutely let you explore the cracks between character roles. I'd like to see them used more for that, then as excuses to massively break the game.
You can play a Barbarian and multiclass to Ranger, you're looking at picking up all of one encounter attack power and one utility power. You don't want a daily swap because you don't want to lose a rage. I don't think any ranger daily powers would be more attractive than a barbarian rage. And for the encounter power swap, I'd look at something like Disruptive Strike. It doesn't require two weapons, and it is an excellent defensive/offensive power.
For two feats, Warrior of the Wild and Novice Power, you get an extra skill, get to roll a couple more d6's per encounter, and get Disruptive Strike. I wouldn't bother wasting a feat on the utility power swap or daily power swap. You have more important things to do with your feats like buffing your offense and defense.
Through heroic levels it might look something like this:
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 10
Dwarf, Barbarian
Build: Rageblood Barbarian
Feral Might: Rageblood Vigor
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 18, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 10.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 10.
FEATS
Level 1: Armor Proficiency (Chainmail)
Level 2: Dwarven Weapon Training
Level 4: Warrior of the Wild
Level 6: Weapon Expertise (Hammer)
Level 8: Novice Power
Level 10: Deadly Rage
POWERS
Barbarian at-will 1: Howling Strike
Barbarian at-will 1: Pressing Strike
Barbarian encounter 1: Avalanche Strike
Barbarian daily 1: Bloodhunt Rage
Barbarian utility 2: Nature Sense
Barbarian encounter 3: Blood Strike
Barbarian daily 5: Frost Wolf Rage
Barbarian utility 6: Laugh it Off
Barbarian encounter 7: Tide of Blood (retrained to Disruptive Strike at Novice Power)
Barbarian daily 9: Stone Bear Rage
Barbarian utility 10: Wellspring of Renewal
ITEMS
Piecemeal Chainmail +2, Amulet of Protection +3, Vanguard Mordenkrad +2, Horned Helm (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Boots of Adept Charging (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
__________________ Warning: This post may contain sarcasm.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
