How often would you apply these bonuses?

Kzach · 3rd November 2009, 12:46 PM

With the wording of two particular benefits, it's possible to interpret them to add their bonus to every single dice roll. Has there been any ruling on this kind of thing?

The two examples are as follows:

Quote:

When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you gain a +1 bonus to all rolls made during the extra action granted.

and

Quote:

When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you gain a bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls until the end of your turn. The bonus equals 2 + the number of soul shards you currently have.

Now... let's say I had a certain situation in which I could potentially roll 6d12 and 10d6 in one turn. The wording of those benefits would have me add their bonus 9 times for the first one and 16 times for the second one.

If I had a maximum of 5 soul shards, that's a potential bonus to my damage of 121 during one turn.

Nichwee · 3rd November 2009, 01:08 PM

I can't follow your maths tbh. But I'm guessing something is wrong with it.
And no - they add to each 'roll' not to each die.

Mainly as:
A 'roll', as indicated by Enhancement bonuses, is a collection of dice rolled for a single reason.

So adding "2 + number of shards" bonus would add that number once to an attack roll, once to any damage roll caused by an attack or effect (like Stinking Cloud), once to any save, once to any .....

The roll is not each dice but the collectionof dice for a single reason, or Enhancement bonuses would scale with damage dice numbers per power, and they don't.

Thanee · 3rd November 2009, 01:33 PM

Yeah, one roll is - for example - one damage roll, which can be 6d12+2d8+1d6 for example.

If both of the special abilities would apply to that roll, you would simply add +8 to it (with 5 soul shards).

Bye
Thanee

Davachido · 3rd November 2009, 01:37 PM

Following on from what Nichwee said, applying the example of the OP:

5 soulshards, using these 2 abilities. A total of 6d12, and 10d6.

Only problem with the number of dice is, how many attacks were there? Each dice isn't a seperate attack I'm guessing as that would be 16 attacks in one turn. Let's seperate it into attacks of 3d12, 3d12, 5d6, 5d6 (4 attacks is still hard to get in one turn, warlord not withstanding).

This would mean the total bonus you get:

AP Soul shard ability:
+7 per attack, 4 attacks

AP boost roll:
+1 damage per attack roll for the attack granted by the extra action.
Which usually means only +1 as you get one other attack, unless you have a power which makes you do 2 attacks like say twin strike.

In total:
Over the 4 attack rolls, one attack is at +8 the others are at +7 damage, thus only about +29.

If you are targetting seperate mobs all with a burst/blast attack, you only roll the damage once which gets +8/+7 (in this example) and you apply it to all targets hit. As per the blast/burst rules in PHB.

Kzach · 3rd November 2009, 01:45 PM

So really the wording should specify that the damage bonus applies per attack, not per roll.

For my example, there are two attacks being made, starting with an action point and adding 3d12+4d6+2d6 for rolls for the first attack and 3d12+4d6 for the second attack.

FireLance · 3rd November 2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kzach

So really the wording should specify that the damage bonus applies per attack, not per roll.

Adding a bonus to damage rolls is pretty standard terminology (see PH page 276). Most people would not argue that the bonus from Weapon Focus should double because they are using a weapon whose [W] is 2d6, or a 2[W] power. Also, adding to damage rolls means that it will not benefit powers that deal static damage.

CapnZapp · 3rd November 2009, 02:04 PM

3d6 is one roll.

The fact there's more than one die is irrelevant. Even 27d12+35d4 is one roll, even if you need to be Large to have hands to hold all those dice...

Atreides · 3rd November 2009, 03:46 PM

The only ability that I know of that adds a bonus per die rolled is the Action Point ability for the Death Dealer Paragon Path (+2 Damage per die rolled).

AbdulAlhazred · 3rd November 2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kzach

So really the wording should specify that the damage bonus applies per attack, not per roll.

ALMOST. Its fairly uncommon, but there are a FEW powers that do more than one damage roll on a single attack. I forget what its called, but there is a Warlock power like this that makes a damage roll against things adjacent to the target. There are also a bunch of powers that the new Whirling Barbarian has that work like this, Whirling Frenzy, Whirling Rend, etc. So there are cases where having a bonus per roll is better than having a bonus per attack (and none where it would be worse AFAICT).