D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
Can you teleport to a square where you would fall directly afterward? Seeing the tactic of the Fell Taint Warp Wender (MM2, page 105) I would say yes, but could someone confirm this.
I'm thinking more directly about the Avenger level 3 encounter power Sequestering strike. Teleporting the target 4 square vertically, then yourself adjacent to it.
Could you teleport yourself 3 square vertically and still be adjacent (diagonals in the air)?
Is the teleport precise enough that you could teleport on a tree branch and avoid falling, but possibly giving your ennemy the possibility of grabbing said branch?
Could you teleport above the guy and fall on him?
I know I have strange questions, but the book I buy often bring more (strange) questions then answers.
I originally thought no, you can't, but there are apparently monsters that have powers that explicitly say "this power must teleport the target to a square they could normally stand on," which implies that otherwise you can teleport them wherever you want.
Kinda annoying when sometimes the only way to find rules clarifications is by "splatbook" monster powers...
__________________ Robots, assassins, hobgoblins, the Ashen Tower, polite beholders, land pirates, gnome genocide, the Corpse Ramp, artifacts, exploding zombie dragons, flying islands, dying heroes, blood feuds, vanished races, the Black City: Rise of Felskein.
Personally, if you were using your eladrin teleport power or warlock power to move upwards to a defensive position (a roof nearby or up a tree etc. then I would allow it with no qualms.
As for using it against enemies... it gets a bit tricky. This could be very easy to abuse, teleporting a monster 30 feet into the air is effectively adding 3d10 to the damage. And usually monsters and PCs have a ST to be able to resist slides off bridges. It seems unfair that teleport should be superior in this regard.
I also have a nagging memory that I read this at the WOTC FAQ and the responsive was negative.
As for you're example of teleporting yourself into the air up alongside the moster. That's actually pretty cool. I imagine you are trained in acrobacy and hoping to roll high enough on your acrobacy check to reduce the 2d10 dmg to something insignificant. I might give the Monster a ST in the air when you appear next to it. If it were to succeed I might rule that he has desperaely grabbed you and negates your ability to land agilely, hence you both crash to the ground, falling prone and taking the full damage... but that's me.
__________________ 'I am a predator...the predator improves the race...I kill but not out of hate.' Frank Herbert: Emperor God of Dune
I discussed this very issue with my gaming group, and we decided on the house rule that:
a) Yes, you can teleport vertically;
b) You can only teleport an involuntary target into a space it can "stand" (so, you can teleport a flying creature from one "air" space to another), but not a non-flying creature into the air; and
c) For voluntary targets, you can teleport them to spaces where they can't stand (so, into thin, for example).
I think for the sake of trying something different, I might just apply the rule from pushing into a pit (rolling to hit again) and on a miss the target is teleported on the ground level instead. Maybe the avenger still get teleported high up in the air and then fall just for risk/reward sake. I can always adjust it later if it is still too strong, but I don't want to say no directly to a creative use of a power.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the player of that particular avenger will never think of that use for that power, unless I pull the same thing of with a monster before their very eyes.
Just be cautious. . .arguments about this kind of thing are a regular occurance on this board. Just look back a few pages to threads about attacking allies or attacking nothing or a handful of other strategies. A creative use, a la page 42, is great, and *say yes* is encouraged, but spamming abusive tactics is potentially un-fun for everyone else. RAW and RAI are nice, but in the end, as the DM, you have the best read on how specific rulings and decisions affect the mood at your table. If you find that the Avenger is cheesily abusing certain powers in questionably legal ways, you should not sacrifice the tone of the game just to make him happy.
So I agree, don't cut him off before he tries it, but don't let him run roughshod over you and your game, either.
On that note, is there anything in RAW that says a push/pull/slide must be horizontal movement?
The intent, obviously, is not to allow a power to knock a target 10-20 feet into the air - otherwise the possibility of Controllers turning into air-juggle combo masters would be insane.
But is it explicitly forbidden in the rules?
Teleportation's always tricky, and raises the following questions:
1) Can an eladrin use Fey Step to escape a grapple?
2) What initiative does gravity act on? For instance, Wally Wizard acts on initiative 20, Bob Barbarian acts on initiative 15, and Suzie Sorceror acts on initiative 7.
Bob is fighting Wally and Suzie, steps on a trap during his turn that teleports him 30 squares (150 feet) straight up. Logically as soon as he poits into open air, he should start falling. Since the 9.8m/s^2 calculations don't convert well to 5' squares and 6-second rounds, we have the issue of:
2a) How many feet does Bob fall per round? and
2b) When does this movement occur?
This could be important because perhaps both Wally and Suzie have ranged spells that they want to fire off as soon as Bob is in range - depending on when gravity acts to pull Bob downwards, one of them will have the chance (barring a readied action) to act first.
3) A character who would be forced into hindering terrain by a power gets a saving throw to halt their movement and fall prone in the closest safe square, IIRC. Does this apply if a character would be teleported into hindering terrain? Is there a difference between "offensive teleport" (forced movement) and a teleport-as-move-action power that would possibly take a PC into danger (teleporting onto apparently solid ground that's really just an illusion over a bottomless pit)?
I discussed this very issue with my gaming group, and we decided on the house rule that:
a) Yes, you can teleport vertically;
b) You can only teleport an involuntary target into a space it can "stand" (so, you can teleport a flying creature from one "air" space to another), but not a non-flying creature into the air; and
c) For voluntary targets, you can teleport them to spaces where they can't stand (so, into thin, for example).
You read my mind. It hasn't come up (good players), but this is exactly how I've been planning on ruling it if it had.
__________________ "I took a risk... and I ended up in the bag of holding" -the player of Ian Whitefire (deceased)
My recommendation is to talk to your players before it comes up - that way everyone is on board when the issue does arrise and there should be no hard feelings.
Said house rule was made after consulting my players - I think one reason I'm happy with it is that I know it works for the whole group.
My rule on teleport is that everyone has an inbuilt magical sense (which is more pronounced if you have Arcana training) that lets you instinctively rebel against offensive teleports, allowing you a save to appear in the nearest safe square. It's a side effect of growing up in a magical world.
On that note, is there anything in RAW that says a push/pull/slide must be horizontal movement?
The intent, obviously, is not to allow a power to knock a target 10-20 feet into the air - otherwise the possibility of Controllers turning into air-juggle combo masters would be insane.
But is it explicitly forbidden in the rules?
Yes. It's in the PHB, but I'm too lazy to find you a page reference. Here's the relevant Compendium text, from the Forced Movement entry: "Distance in Squares: The power you’re using specifies how many squares you can move a target. You can choose to move the target fewer squares or not to move it at all. You can’t move the target vertically." (italics mine).
Yup, page 285 of the PHB1 has the rule for Pull, Push and Slide that says they are all Forced Movement, and that forced movement cannot be vertical. Teleportation is not indicated as forced movement, because the teleportation entry only talks about teleporting YOU.
Should teleportation on another be considered forced movement and thus this entire thread be rendered moot?
For nute: teleportation lets you escape a physical grab (page 286).
Should teleportation on another be considered forced movement and thus this entire thread be rendered moot?
From RAI is should, but by RAW it is not. WotC has already declared their intention to cover teleportation into the air in the next rules update, until then it's allowed by RAW.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
