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Our wizard has been getting away with murder - literally!
Lasting Frost says:
Any target you hit with a power that has the cold keyword gains vulnerable 5 cold until the end of your next turn.
Up till now, our group has been playing without the connection that it requires a 'hit'. For those more astute than us (), that means things like Frostburn that deal damage on the effect at the start of the creatures turn would not be affected by this feat if the orignal attack missed.
Furthermore, that means wall of ice does not work with Lasting Frost (unless it was made vulnerable with a different power before hand) and any dailies that the wizard misses with also does not provide the benefits of Lasting Frost.
This makes Lasting Frost that much more acceptable in my eyes. Hopefully others can learn from this post. We somehow didn't make the connection with this power with regards to hitting until I read the wizard article last night that was on DDI.
Sure they work. The creature GAINS cold vulnerability until the end of your next turn so any effect that causes cold damage until then will do the additional damage. If you want to keep the power up then you'll need to keep hitting it with a cold power each round. Give your defender a frost weapon and Lasting Frost, then watch your cold-based strikers and controllers knock the opposition around like slow pitch softballs.
Alternatively it could have been worded "Any creature taking cold damage that has the cold keyword gains vulnerable 5 cold until the end of your next turn" if it works from effects.
There is a big difference between the two.
Edit: Also, I understand, they GAIN vulnerability and the feat is beneficial for future attacks but thats beside the point.
Because the triggering power must be one requiring a hit. After that the vulnerability kicks in. Great for a character with a good hit chance who can nail the opponent with an at-will cold keyworded attack every round, or a leader/defender whose attack the rest of the party can key off of.
It definitely requires a hit, but it's potentially powerful enough that an entire group may work together to set things up. It's a lot less critical when a single character does it, but three or so? Rangers and Rogues are particularly good at hitting things, for instance.
Because the triggering power must be one requiring a hit. After that the vulnerability kicks in. Great for a character with a good hit chance who can nail the opponent with an at-will cold keyworded attack every round, or a leader/defender whose attack the rest of the party can key off of.
That's my point. The triggering power requires a hit. A dialy attack, that misses and does half damage is not a hit. Neither is Frostburn if the initial attack is a miss, even though the effect does damage at the beginning of their next turn. Neither is Wall of Ice - none of those will trigger Lasting Frost. Up till now, we have been playing that it did.
Maybe I was unclear in my initial post...or maybe we still don't agree. Not sure if we are on the same page yet...
It definitely requires a hit, but it's potentially powerful enough that an entire group may work together to set things up. It's a lot less critical when a single character does it, but three or so? Rangers and Rogues are particularly good at hitting things, for instance.
Agreed. But if you played it the way we have been, it has been even worse! Now that we realize the HIT part, it makes it more tolerable. Maybe thats because we are following the rules on it now.
It definitely requires a hit, but it's potentially powerful enough that an entire group may work together to set things up. It's a lot less critical when a single character does it, but three or so? Rangers and Rogues are particularly good at hitting things, for instance.
I included defenders in my list because they can be particularly usefull at "putting the ball on the tee", especially fighters. You hit me? I hit you on my turn, mark you, and set you up for the striker's whollup. You hit my striker friend instead next time? OK, I take a free swing at you, hit you, and tee you up so that the striker can return the favour again on his next action. You shift away? WHACK! Go get him rogue/warlock/sorcerer/ranger.....
In the same vein of idea, does the Winter Fury PP for the barbarian add Cold to the keyword if the damage become cold. If not then it can always use the vulnerable to do more damage without having to use a frost weapon or having to use cold power.
Frost Reaver (16th level): You gain resist 10 cold. Whenever youdeal damage that has no type, you can make it cold damage.
I'm also curious as to the answer for jester's question.
Also, I'm sure this is probably in a FAQ somewhere, but that section of WotC's site is currently under maintenance: do Frost weapons actually confer the Cold keyword when cold damage is toggled on?
I think the answers to Frost weapon is yes. Notice below, after At-will it lists Cold as the keyword.
Power (At-Will • Cold): Free Action. All damage dealt by this weapon is cold damage. Another free action returns the damage to normal.
As for jester_gl, its not explicit but it would only make sense. However, at the end of the day, DM's call on that one although I'd be reluctant to say no since its cold damage.
The thing is, Markn, while the power that changes damage dealt by the weapon to Cold has the Cold keyword, it doesn't state that any powers you use from then on in actually gain the Cold keyword. Just that they do Cold damage.
The thing is, Markn, while the power that changes damage dealt by the weapon to Cold has the Cold keyword, it doesn't state that any powers you use from then on in actually gain the Cold keyword. Just that they do Cold damage. Therein lies the confusion for me.
Check the PH1 faq -- they're pretty explicit on that point. As a general point, I think that powers have the keywords for all damage types they do -- but it would be nice to get that explicit. (re the barbarian thing).
), that means things like Frostburn that deal damage on the effect at the start of the creatures turn would not be affected by this feat if the orignal attack missed.
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