All Tribal, All the Time

Prestidigitalis · 4th November 2009, 09:34 PM

Some of the new Tribal Feats from Primal Power seem awfully good.

Quick summary: Get a flat feat bonus on some statistic. Gain another +1 for each additional member of the group who has the same Tribal Feat, up to a maximum of +5. To count for the bonus, the group member has to be within 10 squares of you -- a circumstance that will be true almost always unless your group splits up a lot. Note that these feats are ALL available at Heroic tier and with no requirements.

Here's what these feats can do for a party of 5 if all 5 characters take the feats, and all allies are within range. The list is ordered from most to least useful, as I see them.

Bloodied Spear: +5 feat bonus to attack AND damage rolls on OAs

This is amazing. For OAs at least, this is about about twice as good as Melee Training. It's far better than Blade Opportunist, and arguably just as good EVEN IF your character is fighting alone.

Enduring Mountain: +5 bonus HP per healing surge

At level 1, a Wizard with 14 Constitution gets a 83% bump (6 to 15) in surge value. Even a Dragonborn Warden with 18 Constitution gets a 42% bump (12 to 17). The benefit will drop off as level increases, but even at level 30 I could see sticking with it.

Midnight Stalker: +5 feat bonus to Stealth

This is a relatively small improvement over Skill Focus (Stealth) which gives +3 feat bonus, but even a single floorboard squeak can be a big deal, and becomes increasingly likely the bigger the group is. As a result, this feat becomes more powerful just when it is needed: with large groups.

Courageous Heart: +5 feat bonus to saves against charm and fear effects

+5 is a huge bonus for any kind of save. Unless your campaign has few charm and fear effects, this could have a big impact.

Four Winds: +5 feat bonus to Athletics

When one character has to climb, it's pretty likely that everyone has to climb. With this feat, everyone is good at it.

Watchful Owl: +5 feat bonus to Perception

Similar math to Midnight Stalker, but less useful because whereas Stealth results depend on universal success, Perception results usually only depend on a single success. Still, there are cases like "Who wakes up quickly when the camp is attacked at midnight?" Not shabby at all.

Swift Jaguar: +5 feat bonus to Initiative

Everyone benefits from high Initiative bonuses, but +5 most of the time vs. +4 all of the time (from Improved Initiative) probably doesn't make the cut.

Fearsome Host: +5 feat bonus to Intimidate
Audacious Crow: +5 feat bonus to Thievery

Intimidate and Thievery are similar in that usually it is enough to have a single group member specialize in them. The extra +2 relative to Skill Focus is nice, but at the cost of a feat slot for everyone?

***

So. Are these feats reasonable? Are the huge bonuses for Bloodied Spear and Enduring Mountain reasonable rewards for the rare group of players that coordinate their character creation? Are they excessive? Wrongheaded?

RangerWickett · 4th November 2009, 10:26 PM

My whole party (8th level -- shaman, shaman, barbarian, assassin, druid) has tribe of the bloodied spear. We get to use it maybe twice a combat, due to the number of monsters that have shifty skirmisher attacks, or that just don't have a big reason to move around much. And we lack the sort of zone attacks that would encourage enemies to run away and provoke OAs.

chitzk0i · 5th November 2009, 04:11 AM

If the party all takes it. If you play LFR with a rotating group or if you just can't get an ally to give up a feat slot, then it's just a regular feat.

Diirk · 5th November 2009, 07:45 AM

The really nasty one is the new tribal feat in the barbarian essentials article which was something like: "+1 bonus to damage while raging, +1 per ally with any tribal feat"

keterys · 5th November 2009, 08:01 AM

I'd rate the healing surge one as more valuable than the OA one... there's a significant cost to the group in taking many of these, frankly.

Prestidigitalis · 5th November 2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keterys

I'd rate the healing surge one as more valuable than the OA one... there's a significant cost to the group in taking many of these, frankly.

I was torn between those two for top billing. It's hard to de-rate "+5 attack and damage" even if it's situational.

Prestidigitalis · 5th November 2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diirk

The really nasty one is the new tribal feat in the barbarian essentials article which was something like: "+1 bonus to damage while raging, +1 per ally with any tribal feat"

Oh, that IS good. I will have to add it.

Corwin · 5th November 2009, 05:22 PM

We are currently running a group (consisting entirely of dwarves) through the Scales of War path.

We just made 11th and have played all the way up from 1st.

We decided it would be cool to all take Tribe of the Enduring Mountain, both for obvious mechanical awesomeness as well as a cohesive "family" feel.

It has been one of the best investments we made. The benefit of every healing surge adding 6 bonus HPs has been huge.

keterys · 5th November 2009, 05:28 PM

Yeah, that and Dwarven Durability probably gets a bit insane

Prestidigitalis · 5th November 2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keterys

Yeah, that and Dwarven Durability probably gets a bit insane

Just wait until the stout Dwarf hits Epic tier and takes Epic Recovery (2 Second Winds per encounter) and Stoneheart Warrior (Second Wind as a free action) [Both in Martial Power].