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i was considering trying the class out but it seems like they do less damage than many non striker classes. am i just missing the point or something important on how to play them? does anyone have any play exp with them?
i was considering trying the class out but it seems like they do less damage than many non striker classes. am i just missing the point or something important on how to play them? does anyone have any play exp with them?
I think mostly, we're missing half the class. And it shows more with the Monk than with many other classes. That said, the Monk clearly isn't going for the "more damage" aspect of a striker (however much people focus on that one when characterizing strikers as DPS) but on the "put damage where I want, when I want" aspect, with lots of mobility powers, and decent damage. Its worth noting that the released build is the striker-controller -- with a good helping of crowd control on her flurry in addition to a lot of mobility. It's likely that the other PH3 monk will do somewhat more damage to single targets. That said, I think the biggest problem monks have is that all "monk weapons" do -less- damage than an unarmed strike. Thus, with the exception of the humble throwing star, a monk has no real options other than unarmed strike (exception: Staff Training gives a monk +1 AC for -1 proficiency, which is a good deal for a monk who concentrates on implement attacks, but still). That said, a monk's attack does Wis x2 + dice -- which is comparable to a sorcerer (but with much more mobility and somewhat less multitargetting).
yea true enough about the sorc but they have a nice advantage being ranged. i think your probably right overall about not seeing the class as a whole without feats and seeing the other builds i don't know if i can will myself to play test it :/
i was considering trying the class out but it seems like they do less damage than many non striker classes. am i just missing the point or something important on how to play them?
Which non-striker classes? Those that use [W] damage instead of a fixed die? Especially those that use two-handed weapons? That's not just a monk, but rather a pretty standard symptom of being an implement-user (and unarmed strikes are implements). The big aberration is that, as has been mentioned already, their weapons are even weaker than their unarmed strikes.
Last year, everybody was on the "that's the job of the [insert role]" bandwagon. So if, for instance, you thought a class should get some AoE, they'd crawl out of the woodwork at the chance to say "that the job of a controller".
Then time went on and the designers blew this rigid thinking out of the water by making classes that color outside of the lines. Now, we're in the "the class has a [insert role] secondary role". So, if you say the fighter outdamages a monk, you're likely to be informed that a fighter has a secondary role of striker. Just letting you know where the current trend stands.
im well aware of this i just dont know how much i care for a secondary role to out perform a primary one. but i think saying the monks 2nd build will likely be more impressive striker wise. the current monk does have some nifty close-burst attacks.
Having tried a low-level monk for a while, I can say that it does his role well. He run around with cool movement options, he can put the hurt on a single target if he needs too, but I think he's more of a burst damage dealer (as in burst 1, burst 2, etc.)
He can also kill minion as an afterthought with his centered flurry of blow, which is kinda cool too.
His fists also count as off-hand weapon if you want to have fun with two-weapon fighting, defense, etc. He's unlikely to be without his fists
He also has a full complement of attack targeting For, Ref and AC (probably Will too but havent checked).
One of the feats I'd like to see, that would probably increase dps a bit too, would be something like a Proficiency feat that allowed adding certain weapons to their list of "monk" weapons.
Given what you see in anime and asian cinema, the monk weapons offered in the current version is a pretty skmpy list. Perhaps something we can hope for in Martial Power 2...
__________________ Life is the game that must be played. ~Edwin Arlington Robinson
Having played a monk for a little while I can say that their damage is a lot better than it seems at first glance.
The greatest strength of the monk class is the at-wills. Dancing Cobra is a weapon attack that targets reflex. That means you hardly ever miss, which means good DPR. Five storms is likewise an amazing power. Having a close burst at-will attack on a melee striker is incredible.
And the damage itself isn't terrible. You have to work for it. I have guantlets of blood, talon amulet, and two-weapon fighting, but 1d8+14 damage on a +14 vs reflex attack at level 6 is very good.
And they have indicated that the class will get bonus feats to imrpove their damage (like boosting the d8s to d10s). I am confident that when the class comes out in full, we will not be dissapointed.
I actually kind of like the class. Would just like to see some ranged weapon attacks thrown in. In general, too many classes are hemmed into being all-melee or all-ranged.
Then again, I never really got into the whole idea that putting a weapon into a monk's hands should actually make it weaker.
I actually kind of like the class. Would just like to see some ranged weapon attacks thrown in. In general, too many classes are hemmed into being all-melee or all-ranged.
Then again, I never really got into the whole idea that putting a weapon into a monk's hands should actually make it weaker.
Eh, he's Dex/Wis based. If you want ranged just pick up some Ranger/Seeker powers. A shame you can't kick while holding a bow by the rules, though.
__________________ "I took a risk... and I ended up in the bag of holding" -the player of Ian Whitefire (deceased)
I actually kind of like the class. Would just like to see some ranged weapon attacks thrown in. In general, too many classes are hemmed into being all-melee or all-ranged.
Then again, I never really got into the whole idea that putting a weapon into a monk's hands should actually make it weaker.
I too would like to see a ranged attack - perhaps based upon throwing weapons like knives or shuriken.
I noticed that in the Character builder, you can apply all manner of magical enchantments to a Monk Unarmed Strike. Not sure how that makes sense - handwraps I guess?
__________________ Life is the game that must be played. ~Edwin Arlington Robinson
I actually kind of like the class. Would just like to see some ranged weapon attacks thrown in. In general, too many classes are hemmed into being all-melee or all-ranged.
They are a dex-based melee class. By that very design they are pretty good at range and at melee. They may not get any powers usable at range, but ranged basic attack is a perfectly good power, and they get proficiency in both the dagger and the shuriken so I don't see a problem.
I too would like to see a ranged attack - perhaps based upon throwing weapons like knives or shuriken.
I noticed that in the Character builder, you can apply all manner of magical enchantments to a Monk Unarmed Strike. Not sure how that makes sense - handwraps I guess?
Reading the article, and not just going by the character builder, helps here.
It says that using the enchant item and transfer enchant rituals, a monk can empower his fists. If you want to flavor that as handwraps go ahead, but I would stop short of making that slot unavailable for other enchanted items.
Man, typing that makes me want to play M Bison from street fighter now, with blue flaming fists. Awesome.
I too would like to see a ranged attack - perhaps based upon throwing weapons like knives or shuriken.
I noticed that in the Character builder, you can apply all manner of magical enchantments to a Monk Unarmed Strike. Not sure how that makes sense - handwraps I guess?
I flavoured it this way in 3e when one of my players wanted to have a +x flaming weapon, but really liked the idea of his monk attacking without weapons so I gave him handwraps.
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