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Here's a version of my Wretched Spell feat together with a more powerful (and more expensive) version of your Circumventory Spell. I could give it a different name if you don't want the initial version to be superseded. The flavor text gives guidance for how the feats work. E.g. if you are on a plane where (for some reason) globes of invulnerability don't work, then Avoidant Spell wouldn't work either.
The main idea is that there is a natural "arms race" where magical defenses are developed to protect against magical attacks; when these become universal, the attacks are upgraded to bypass broad categories of defenses.
[edit] New, improved version below. These versions are in spoiler blocks as a reference to see the degree of improvement.
Spoiler:
Avoidant Spell [Metamagic][Epic]
Your spells are imbued with the magic of a globe of invulnerability. Prerequisites: Spell Penetration, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks Benefit: A spell modified with Avoidant Spell ignores all spells (including spell-like abilities) of level 1 or lower. Ignored spells cannot reduce or prevent damage from, detect or directly interact with the modified spell. For example, an avoidant magic missile would ignore a shield spell, and could not target a creature summoned by monster summoning I. An avoidant spell has no special effect on supernatural or extraordinary abilities or defenses, nor does it ignore instantaneous effects such as a wall of stone. Indirect effects (such as saving throw bonuses granted by spells) are not negated by an avoidant spell. An avoidant spell takes up a slot 1 level higher. Special: Avoidant Spell can be applied multiple times to the same spell; each additional application of Avoidant Spell causes the modified spell to ignore an additional level of spells and take up a spell slot another level higher. For example, an avoidant (x6) magic missile could strike a target behind a wall of force or inside an antimagic field, and would occupy a 7th level spell slot.
[edit] I'm presuming that while inside a globe of invulnerability a brooch of shielding would work against, say, a heightened (x4) magic missile, but that a shield spell would not. A globe of invulnerability shuts down low level spells, but not magic items. I should probably confirm this in the rules forum. I should also decide what level epic spells are treated at. I rather like the Spell Level = 6 + SP/6 formula.
Circumventory Spell [Metamagic][Epic]
Your spells are imbued with the magic of an antimagic field. Prerequisites: Spell Penetration, Knowledge (arcana) 27 ranks, Spellcraft 27 ranks Benefit: You can modulate a spell to bypass magical protections, suspending them for the purposes of determining whether the target is affected. A spell cast as a circumventory spell ignores magical protections by spell or device which would normally defeat it or reduce its efficacy. Supernatural immunities or resistances to a spell are also ignored, but extraordinary qualities cannot be circumvented. A circumventory fireball ignores magical resistance or immunity to fire; a circumventory finger of death ignores a death ward or a scarab of protection etc. If a target would not exist in an antimagic field (e.g. a summoned or incorporeal creature) it will be completely unaffected by a circumventory spell. A circumventory spell uses up a slot ten levels higher than the spell's actual level. Special: Circumventory Spell does not enable a spell to penetrate a prismatic sphere, wall of force or an antimagic field. In fact, a protection which would function in an antimagic field will function against a circumventory spell; this includes barriers created as instantaneous effects, such as a wall of stone.
[edit] A circumventory spell is superior to an avoidant (x9) spell in that it overcomes magic items as well as most spells. However an avoidant spell can penetrate at least three different barriers that a circumventory spell can't penetrate. I'm wondering if circumventory spell is a trifle too expensive. Maybe 8 levels would be better than 10.
the original version of Circumventory Spell
Circumventory Spell [Metamagic][Epic] Prerequisites: Spell Penetration, Knowledge (arcana) 27 ranks, Spellcraft 27 ranks Benefit: You can modulate a spell to bypass magical protections, suspending them for the purposes of determining whether the target is affected. A spell cast as a circumventory spell ignores magical protections by spell or device (but not natural immunities) which would normally defeat it or reduce its efficacy. A circumventory fireball ignores magical resistance or immunity to fire; a circumventory finger of death ignores a death ward or a scarab of protection etc. A circumventory spell uses up a slot four levels higher than the spell's actual level.
I thought the counter-measure in the arms race should be a bit later in coming.
I harmonized the flavor of the prerequisites, but did not make one the prerequisite for the other; the function of a globe of invulnerability is not subsumed by that of an antimagic field even though both are abjurations which restrict the functioning of magic. Accordingly their feat-analogues should also be similar, but independent.
I might post other feats from the big thread here, so they can be all in one place.
I was also thinking of developing something for non-spellcasters to use so that they are not totally outclassed by spellcasters.
e.g. Special abilities added to the epic fighter class (in addition to their feats) that allow them to use Spell Stowaway, or which grant immunity to certain spells. A fighter that can dive after a teleporting wizard, or who can walk through a forcecage, and act freely during that wizard's time stop - the wizard might still wipe the floor with the guy, but it won't be a sure thing. Ditto for epic rogues and barbarians. What do you think? Is this a terrible idea?
Last edited by Cheiromancer; 18th November 2006 at 04:00 PM..
I'd call out Metamagic Freedom explicitly in the "special" entry for Avoidant Spell, just for the sake of clarity - a quick scan might otherwise indicate that you'd need to take the feat multiple times.
Re: Circumventory Spell.
This would translate to a +20 factor to penetrate all resistances and immunities in the Jacobean schema; given that typeless damage is +8 with [blast] - essentially overcoming all elemental immunities - this is probably OK.
Can this Circumventory Spell penetrate a prismatic sphere and other area effects, or only protections upon a particular target? I'm not clear.
I'd call out Metamagic Freedom explicitly in the "special" entry for Avoidant Spell, just for the sake of clarity - a quick scan might otherwise indicate that you'd need to take the feat multiple times.
Actually I was intending it to work much like Heighten Spell is. I'll expand the wording in the "special" entry to say that if a wizard wants to magic missile someone in a globe of invulnerability they can, just by applying avoidant 3 times.
Quote:
Can this Circumventory Spell penetrate a prismatic sphere and other area effects, or only protections upon a particular target? I'm not clear.
Good question. I'm visualizing it as the spell's energy being sheathed by an antimagic field that doesn't neutralize the spell being cast, but which shuts down all the things an antimagic field usually shuts down. Sheathed in the sense that anything which interacts with the spell, or which might interfere with the spell, has to deal with an antimagic field first.
Which means that it can't penetrate a prismatic sphere, since an antimagic field couldn't do it. It can't penetrate a force field either, for the same reason. Maybe I should include more of the rules text from antimagic field.
Parallel considerations apply to Avoidant Spell, only using globe of invulnerability as the base. Although now that I think about it, it is unclear what happens if you have more than 4 levels of Avoidant. Can an avoidant spell bypass an antimagic field or a wall of force? In which case an avoidant (x6) defensive spell couldn't be shut down by a circumventory spell. Which means the arms race continues.
Not that the interactions of antimagic field are 100% clear either. It can't penetrate a wall of force, but what about a resilient sphere?
Still needs some tinkering for clarity, and these other rules issues probably should be addressed, but I'm glad you like the basic idea.
Alright, there is a thread in rules here, which should clarify some things about Avoidant Spell and Circumventory Spell. In the mean time, I'd like to look again at King Solomon's Seal. We don't have a factor for calling unique entities anymore (it used to be +10). In fact, we actually lower the SP for spells that name a single individual! So that bit should be dropped.
The [call] seed has an interesting feature whereby you can try to trick the fiend into waiving its saving throw. This works best when the fiend's Wisdom bonus is much less than its saving throw bonus. If you have a 30 Intelligence and GSF in Conjuration you'll want the gap to be at least 15. Otherwise you are better off Heightening the Spell and trying to compel it to respond to your [call]. I think that anyone with King Solomon's Seal wouldn't resort to such trickery- it should provide a penalty to saves rather than (say) a boost to the CR that can be summoned.
[Call] now has a built-in period of 200 minutes of ordinary service. You'd need the [compel] seed to make the fiend do something it really doesn't want to do- like go into an iron flask. Or perhaps not - this seems like something that the minimus containment form of binding would excel at.
I just realized that binding is actually an epic seed. Simply change the casting time to one standard action from one minute (+4), waive the material components (500 gp + 500 gp/HD would be +4 or +5 for most fiends) and Heighten it to 10th level (+4) and you have a 10th level spell. I think I'll add it to one of our current threads.
Anyway, I'd say that King Solomon's Seal should provide a bonus to use of the [call] and [binding] seeds when dealing with fiendish nobility. It should provide a hefty penalty to the fiend's saving throws in the former case and a substantial boost to caster level in the second. Interestingly, these bonuses will generally not coincide; [call] doesn't allow spell resistance and so caster level is irrelevant; [binding], on the other hand, doesn't allow a saving throw (at least if your caster level is high enough) and so the saving throw penalty is irrelevant.
The requirement of Epic Spell Focus in the prerequisites is a real stinker. +1 to save DCs is pretty awful for a seed specialist who doesn't rely much on non-epic spells. Or one whose primary use of conjurations will be for effects that don't require saving throws. An epic spellcaster will be putting a lot of feats into Epic Spellcasting just to keep up with Matt. If Jake is going to spend two of these feats in pursuit of the secret of King Solomon's Seal, the results had better be pretty juicy; the equivalent of two specialized feats.
Actually, I'm wondering if that is too much. One feat specialized in fiendish nobility is probably enough; we don't need one that is double-powered. It might be better, I think, to tone it down, but drop some of the prerequisites.
And with regard to the skill-points; I can see that this is an "academic" feat that ordinary sorcerers (for whom Knowledge (the planes) is a cross-class skill) wouldn't be suited for. But I think if they pay the extra skill points they should be able to get it at a reasonable level; given that their intelligence will be much lower, it is a genuine cost to them. And I also think that if a cleric were to find these seeds associated they should be able to take advantage of the feat; requiring greater planar binding as an arcane spell seems to be asking a lot. In fact, a religious element would not be at all inappropriate, given the namesake of the feat. Given the namesake, you wonder how it came about that he was casting all these [evil] spells. How about this:
King Solomon's Seal [Epic]
You can coerce fiendish nobility into service. Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Knowledge (arcana) 33 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 18 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 18 ranks. Benefits: You receive a +10 bonus to your caster level when you cast a spell incorporating the [call] or [binding] seeds against members of the fiendish nobility (such as demon princes or dukes of hell). Fiendish nobles receive a -10 penalty to any saving throw these spells may allow. Special: A spell which benefits from King Solomon's Seal ceases to be a spell of the evil type. Note: A fiendish noble usually has at least 20 hit dice, and is typically either an advanced member of a particular species (at least 50% more hit dice than a typical pit fiend, balor, etc.) or of a unique type.
Original version of King Solomon's Seal
King Solomon's Seal [Epic]
You can coerce fiendish nobility into service. Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Epic Spell Focus (Conjuration), Knowledge (arcana) 33 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 33 ranks, Spellcraft 33 ranks, able to cast greater planar binding as an arcane spell. Benefits: When you develop a spell incorporating the [call] and [compel] seeds which is aimed specifically at calling and exacting service from fiendish nobility (such as demon princes or dukes of hell), you do not have to pay the usual cost associated with calling unique entities. Furthermore, the target creature makes any saving throw or spell resistance check against a spell developed this way with a -10 penalty.
Following the discussion (linked to above) I'm wondering if using the mechanics of globe of invulnerability is problematic as a basis for a feat. Part of the problem is that a GoI doesn't work on spells that have already been cast. If your spell is being imbued with a GoI-type energy as it is cast it wouldn't be able to avoid anything, and the feat would be useless. This leads to a second problem: the way that GoI interacts with magic items. Magic items do not give supernatural or spell-like abilities; their powers are thus spell-like (or, in the case of spell trigger or spell completion items, actual spells). The reason that GoI doesn't interfere with them is because GoI doesn't suppress effects which precede it. But if we change the nature of the GoI-type energy that imbues an avoidant spell (so that it can actually do something), then the possibility is raised that avoidant spell avoids protection due to magic items as well. But then *this* becomes complicated in that the spell-level of a magic item is not always clear, particularly for descriptive items.
My initial version also said that an avoidant spell could not be detected or interacted with by a lesser spell. I'm not sure what that meant, exactly, unless it meant that each spell ignored the other. Could a summoned monster walk through an avoidant wall of fire? Could it see a character concealed by an avoidant invisibility? What happens if someone uses see invisibility against an avoidant (x2) invisibility? Does see invisibility not work (because avoidant treats it as non-existent with respect to the invisibility) or does the person not count as invisible (because the spells ignore each other)? What would happen if someone used an avoidant (x2) see invisibility against a character who is invisible? It is starting to look like the feat would be a PITA to adjudicate.
The question of whether a wall of force or a prismatic sphere can be suppressed is also unclear. Antimagic field can't suppress them, so why should an avoidant spell? Antimagic field doesn't interfere with another antimagic field, so it is not at all clear that a GoI type of effect could interfere with it, either. Definitely a PITA. Maybe dispel magic would be a more rigorous basis for the spell. How about this:
Avoidant Spell [Metamagic][Epic]
Your spells bypass weaker magical defenses. Prerequisites: Spell Penetration, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks Benefit: A spell modified with Avoidant Spell ignores most protective spells (including spell-like abilities) of level 1 or lower. Ignored spells or abilities cannot reduce or prevent the effects of the modified spell. For example, an avoidant magic missile would ignore a shield spell. An avoidant spell can only avoid spells and abilities that can be ended by dispel magic, and thus cannot ignore supernatural or extraordinary defenses, or instantaneous effects such as a wall of stone. Indirect effects (such as saving throw bonuses granted by spells) are not negated by an avoidant spell. However, an avoidant spell can bypass protections provided by items; the spell level of such items is determined by the DM, who should be guided by similar spells, item prerequisites and item caster level. An avoidant spell takes up a slot 1 level higher than normal. Special: Avoidant Spell can be applied multiple times to the same spell; each additional application of Avoidant Spell causes the modified spell to ignore an additional level of spells and take up a spell slot another level higher. For example, an avoidant (x4) enervation could affect a target protected by death ward and would occupy an 8th level spell slot.
Circumventory Spell is almost redundant if Avoidant Spell affects items. The only place it is superior is with regard to supernatural immunities. I think such immunities are best handled on a case by case basis, as with Animus Invictus. So I'd say to drop it.
I thought I saw a neat exploit with Tenacious Magic, but this thread shot it down. Suppose the highlighted words in Tenacious Magic were replaced with "prematurely end." It would allow for the basic unbreakable curse. The only thing you could do is persuade the original caster to lift the curse.
If a feat devoted to a particular spell is worth about 30 points, then a basic 5th level spell (worth 30 points) would be 60 points in kernelese if this feat were built in to it; an awesome entry level spell, I think.
Tenacious Magic [Epic]
Choose one of your spells or spell-like abilities. That magic cannot be dispelled, only suppressed. Prerequisites: Spellcraft 15 ranks. Benefit: Choose one spell you know or spell-like ability you possesses. Whenever the chosen form of magic would otherwise end due to a dispel effect, the magic is instead only suppressed for 1d4 rounds. The magic still ends when its duration expires, but the suppressed rounds do not count against its duration. You can dismiss your own spell or spell-like ability (if dismissible) or dispel your own tenacious magic normally.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different spell or spell-like ability.
Of course, this would be a significant change to the Tenacious Magic feat. Maybe make a variant (with the new wording) that applies only to [afflict] spells or something. Or have tenacious effects be a sub-seed of [afflict].
I suppose you could have someone cast a spell that takes ownership of the tenacious spell. (That would involve the [delude] seed wouldn't it? Isn't there a spell that lets you subvert the control of another caster's summoned monsters? This would be like that.) Perhaps there could be a story-enhancing way of preventing this from happening: include an epic factor (whose net effect is to mitigate) that prevents the spell from being deluded (call it "True ownership" or something). However the factor allows the curse to be broken in specified circumstances (like greater bestow curse). This could make a great plot-hook. (This paragraph has too many parentheses!)
Or you could let any epic curse can just be gotten rid of with a sufficiently boosted [dispel]. But what is the fun in that?
Anyway, I thought I'd float this idea. DMs can do this kind of thing by hand-waving, but I thought it would be nice to have a robust mechanic in place to enable it.
[edit] Interesting discussion on that thread. Folks are reading the text very closely. Apparently remove curse would work on a tenacious bestow curse, but greater dispel magic wouldn't, despite the phrase "Additionally, greater dispel magic has a chance to dispel any effect that remove curse can remove, even if dispel magic can’t dispel that effect." The key word is "dispel". Tenacious Magic won't stop something from ending or canceling or removing or reversing the spell, but it will block something from "dispelling" it.
Personally I would have used a variety of terms just to break the monotony, not for any fine rules distinction. What would we do without the rules forum! :\
Last edited by Cheiromancer; 22nd November 2006 at 04:17 AM..
EARTHSCORCHER [EPIC]
Armies flee and cities are abandoned at the rumour of your passing. Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Spell Focus (Evocation), Spellcraft 30 ranks. Benefit: When you use this feat to develop an epic spell with the energy seed as its base seed to evoke a [fire] effect, the base range, area and duration (if non-instantaneous) are all multiplied by 10. Any subsequent increases in any of these parameters are calculated from their new base values.
Nine widenings would be +27; 9 extends would be another +9, but wouldn't apply to anything in the [blast] seed; we'd have to write up the [field] seed first. +36 is pushing it for a feat that enhances two seeds, even ones that are as closely related as [blast] and [field]; really just sub-seeds of [energy]. I'd really like to drop the fire restriction; why can't someone blast an army with cold or acid?
There would really need to be a Reduced Volume factor made available with this feat, otherwise he'd be useless at close quarters. Based on the factor in [transmute], if the character doesn't make use of the increased area, he should be able to get back 10 points in free factors to spend on his [blast] spells. Hmmm. That is an interesting idea. How about this:
Magnipotent [Epic]
Your evocations span horizons, and scorch whole battlefields. Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Spell Focus (Evocation), Spellcraft 30 ranks, access to [blast] or [field]. Benefit: When you use develop an epic spell to evoke an [acid], [cold], [electricity] or [fire] effect, gain 30 SP in free factors. These factors must be spent to enlarge, extend or widen the base parameters of the base seed. Furthermore, these free factors actually increase the base range, duration and area of the seed. Any subsequent increases in any of these parameters are calculated from their new base values.
edit: was Oulomenen, but that is a trifle obscure. The power to make big, though; that seems to describe the feat perfectly. Dies Irae might work; especially in conjunction with Herald of the Escaton.
Rage—sing, goddess, the rage of Achilles, the son of Peleus,
the destructive rage that brought countless griefs upon the Achaeans...
I think reference to [blast] and [field] might be redundant; I don't think there are any other elemental evocations in our system. I'll put them back if you think that would be better.
Last edited by Cheiromancer; 26th November 2006 at 12:38 PM..
I like this (although the mythological reference is obscure in the extreme). It's streamlined. I'd be tempted restrict it to 'genuine' elemental effects, though, including sonic effects.
You are much better at thinking up cool names than I am. The alternative was "Untrammeled Blast", which isn't very evocative.
And the spoiler is sheer bravado- I had to go look up the beginning of the Illiad to find the word. Although the fact that I knew that Achilles is uniquely ascribed this word (among mortals at least) counts in my favor, I suppose.
If sonic (at +4 SP) can be included, I don't see why the other factors couldn't be. I think it would be more elegant if it were restricted to Acid, Cold, Electricity or Fire effects. A restriction would also ease my mind a little about allowing such a hefty mitigation to apply to two seeds.
[edit] I thought of some good names!
Last edited by Cheiromancer; 23rd November 2006 at 03:02 AM..
See post 13 for a revised version. Much less math.
Spoiler:
Arcane Accoutrement [Epic]
You augment whole armies. Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Spell Focus (Transmutation), Spellcraft 30 ranks, access to [augment] or [fortify]. Benefit: When you develop an epic spell based on [augment] or [fortify] that provides only non-epic bonuses, gain 30 SP in free factors. If these free factors are applied to increase the range, duration and/or area of the seed, they actually change the base values: Subsequent increases of these parameters are calculated from their new base values. Special: A spell modified with Arcane Accoutrement can only affect willing subjects and their items.
Structurally this is very similar to Magnipotent, but I'm wondering if its main effect will be to highlight the flaws of our system. Or at least the parts of it that are my doing, since it exploits the heck out of the Mass Effect factor I am proposing. The armies of a sorcerer-king will be pretty scary!
Of course, when you are a 30th level spellcaster you should be able to handle a virtually unlimited number of mooks. If you have an army to back you up, and no epic spellcasters to oppose you... Well, this feat will make your armies pretty much unstoppable.
Dunno it that'd be bad or not. Epic spells change campaigns.
[edit] CR 20 made me nervous. I dropped it to 10.
[edit2] Free factors restricted.
[edit3] Dropped reference to [polymorph] (which is what the edit above refers to)
Last edited by Cheiromancer; 28th November 2006 at 02:57 AM..
Excellent names. Both seem pretty powerful - I'm inclined to say remove the free 10SP to any parameter (plus triples), and simply include free 30SP to specific parameters: Magnipotent could otherwise be used to increase the damage or Save DC as well, which I'm a little wary of.
Quote:
Epic spells change campaigns.
That's why I like 'em so much. Magnipotent + Herald of the [Blast] is big trouble. A very big primordial fireball is appealing.
Last edited by Sepulchrave II; 26th November 2006 at 05:44 PM..
Arcane Accoutrement [Epic]
You augment whole armies. Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Spell Focus (Transmutation), Spellcraft 30 ranks, access to [augment] or [fortify] Benefit: When you cast an epic spell based on [augment] or [fortify] that provides only non-epic bonuses, the spell affects any number of willing targets within range that you designate.
[Fortify] would mostly apply weapon, armor and shield bonuses. Probably each +1 is +1 SP, to a maximum enhancement bonus of +5, and a total bonus of +10 or less.
The mass effect factor is +14, and the unlimited targets is +4. This is for the targets being within a 20-ft. radius spread; the remaining 12 points of SP provided by the feat widen the spell (via an exponential factor) to an appropriately large scale. I don't want to be stingy with the range of the thing; there are various strategms whereby such limits can be overcome anyway.
If you like Arcane Accoutrement, here's one for [polymorph].
Quicksilver Army [Epic]
Your troops have a reputation for shapeshifting. Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Spell Focus (Transmutation), Spellcraft 30 ranks, access to [polymorph] Benefit: When you cast an epic spell based on [polymorph] that grants a form whose CR does not exceed 10, the spell affects any number of willing targets within spell range that you designate.
The main problem is finding stuff to spend SP on. Flexibility factors, I suppose. Or Lore of Circe. I've tinkered with that feat a bit; this is the revised form:
Lore of Circe [Epic] Prerequisites: Brew Potion, Spellcraft 24 ranks, Knowledge Nature 13 ranks, access to [polymorph] Benefit: Pay 20 SP to enhance a [polymorph] spell with Lore of Circe. A spell enhanced in this way has a permanent duration and can affect unwilling targets (Fortitude negates). You may dismiss the effect from any number of targets within range as a standard action. The spell gains a +5 bonus to its Save DC and caster level when cast against someone who, in the hour prior to casting, ate food you helped prepare. You may pay an additional 20 SP to make the spell pernicious.
Just as Magnipotent + Herald of [blast] would be a potent combination, so too these two [polymorph] feats. I'll have to think about this some more.
Last edited by Cheiromancer; 28th November 2006 at 01:42 PM..
Reason: Changed name, minor edits
Arcane Accoutrement [Epic]
You augment whole armies.
Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Spell Focus (Transmutation), Spellcraft 30 ranks, access to [augment] or [fortify]
Benefit: When you cast an epic spell based on [augment] or [fortify] that provides only non-epic bonuses, the spell affects any number of willing targets within range that you designate.
I assume that the range is the range of [polymorph] - i.e. 1200 ft?
This '?' should be a higher-order feat which corresponds to Herald of the Eschaton for the [Destroy] specialist; maybe more impressive, because of the stiffer prereqs (5 epic feats, no less).
Side note:
Are we allowed to do [Reserve] feats, or are they protected? Can we use their equivalent, and call them something else? Or not call them anything? The idea of an epic spell being held in order to power nonepic spell-like abilities is very cool. They could be unlimited uses - which helps with bookkeeping, too.
Might I suggest Quicksilver Army or Quicksilver Mantle as possible alternative names, depending on how explicit you would like the intent of the feat to be?
Last edited by Sepulchrave II; 28th November 2006 at 06:21 AM..
There are various ways that spell slots can be used as resources: the Archmage is one example, the system of reserve feats is another. My recollection of Spellfire is vague; did it use spell slots? I think there are some Forgotten Realms spells that allow you to use spell slots for healing or blasting or whatever too.
In an early version of [conjure] I floated the idea of "investing" spell slots in order to grant a duration to conjured magic items. As long as you reserved a 9th level spell slot you could keep a mirror of mental prowess. That would be yet another way of using spell slots as resources.
Perhaps there can be a class of epic spells that work by occupying an epic spell slot; as long as you don't use that spell slot for something else, you get various abilities. It would be very similar to a permanent spell that grants abilities, but couldn't be dispelled. Of course if you got energy drained or lost massive amounts of intelligence or something you'd be hosed, but there's always a downside to any new trick.
If I understand our system correctly, epic spell slots aren't prepared; Jake can cast any spell he knows. We'd need a feat, Dedicated Spell, that changes this; it provides an epic spell slot, but can't be used spontaneously; the spell has to be prepared for it. To compensate for this lack of flexibility, Dedicated Spell could provide a suite of benefits depending on the school of the epic spell that was prepared for this slot. Perhaps the equivalent of a 4th or 5th level spell, usable at will.
There might be different versions of Dedicated Spell, each with a different palette of spell-like abilities. Some of these feats might also have prerequisites. You could make a very rich school of magic this way. It would probably step on the Warlock's feet a little, but that's OK.
Alternatively (or additionally) Epic spells could also be developed to provide benefits; probably price an additional +20 or so factor into them to make it into an unlimited spell-like ability.
So Jake could cast a 30d6 blast 1/day at level 21. Or he could cast that same spell at will at level 41.
Are these the kinds of things you were thinking of?
If I understand our system correctly, epic spell slots aren't prepared; Jake can cast any spell he knows.
I've been working on the assumption that epic spells are prepared by classes which normally prepare spells, and cast spontaneously by sorcerers.
Quote:
Are these the kinds of things you were thinking of?
Yep. Not that I think that we're in a position to really explore this properly yet, but it's something to bear in mind when we flesh things out:
Serpenteye [Epic] Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Persuasive, Spell Focus (Enchantment), Bluff 15 ranks, Spellcraft 33 ranks, must prepare arcane spells Benefits: As long as you retain a prepared epic spell which uses [compel] as its base seed, you gain the use of the following powers as spell-like abilities, usable at will: charm monster, dominate person and suggestion. These abilities use your caster level, where appropriate. They are not subject to metamagic, but may be modified by feats which specifically extend to spell-like abilities (such as Quicken Spell-Like Ability).
Last edited by Sepulchrave II; 28th November 2006 at 04:00 PM..
I've been working on the assumption that epic spells are prepared by classes which normally prepare spells, and cast spontaneously by sorcerers.
I guess I was conflating the spellbookless preparation of epic spellcasters with spontaneous spellcasting.
Re: Serpenteye
I wonder if there is a way of granting a character at-will spell-like abilities other than by [polymorph]? I guess I'm thinking that there ought to be a serpenteye epic spell that allows you to use charm monster, dominate person and suggestion at will. Probably around SP 33 or 36 or so.
Peerless Infusion [Epic][Item Creation] Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Brew Potion, Craft (Alchemy) 30 ranks, Spellcraft 30 ranks Benefit: You may create an infusion, capturing the essence of an epic spell which specifies you as its target in a potent elixir which others may then drink. The cost (in both gold and experience), and time required for creating a peerless infusion is equal to one fifth of the base cost of the epic spell infused. You may have any number of peerless infusions in your possession at any given time, but a specific epic spell may only have one infusion with regard to it extant.
Consumption of the peerless infusion unlocks its magical potential, and the imbiber gains the full benefit of the spell as though he had cast it himself.
I think the "as though he had cast it himself" is a little vague. Does that mean a non-spellcaster has a caster level of zero? I assume that backlash and other costs are paid at the time of making the infusion. How about other decisions? Can the recipient take advantage of flexibility factors?
The cost is in line with what the DMG suggests for crafting a one shot use activated item; spell level (10) x caster level (20) x 25 = 5000 gp. One fifth the cost to develop a SP 24 spell is 4,800 gp, which is almost identical.
I've sometimes thought that the cost of researching epic spells might be too cheap. Given that arcane casters can only prepare a very finite number of spells, I don't think there is any harm in their having fairly large repertoires of epic spells. And the costs do add up. But if the cost of developing an epic spell is too cheap (maybe you should add 200,000 gp to it? ) then the peerless infusion would be too cheap. But that isn't a problem considering that you can only make one peerless infusion of a spell at a time.
Although I'm not sure how that would work. If you make a peerless infusion and give it away, what happens a year later when you try to make another? Do you risk having the second infusion not work? Do you automatically know if the first infusion has been consumed or not?
And could you research a nearly identical copy of the spell (for another 24000 gp) in order to be able to make a second peerless infusion?
The feat also suggests a Peerless Scrivener feat, to make scrolls of epic spells. And a whole line of Peerless Item feats, to make scrolls and rings and wondrous items. That opens up a door that the ELH had very firmly closed; no items that reproduce epic level spells.
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How do you feel about this?
Uneasy. A lot of questions and issues are raised by the existence of the feat.
Clerical feat. It's taken me ages to get here, and I still don't know if I like it. It has some weird ideas, like apportioning backlash as part payment for its powers.
I thought about a feat which applied to several seeds (also allowing integration of prismatic sphere into a [ward] effect), but got frustrated, as we don't have a [ward] yet.
This feat offers 10 points up front and 12 more from the halo effect; the halo is costed as a root spell raised to epic status, and then incorporated as an invisible secondary seed. Subsequent widenings apply to the halo, as well. I also broke with precedent and made the benefits of the feat force a separate saving throw - it seemed the only way to make it work: I have weighed this at an arbitrary +6. There's a little spontaneity, so that's worth +2.
I reckon it's about +30 in goodies altogether, minus a certain loss of flexibility. I thinf SF (Evo) is pretty stiff for a cleric (they could be taking a bunch of [divine] feats, instead).
Coronal [Epic]
You are incandscent. Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Knowledge (religion) 30 ranks, Spell Focus (Evocation), Spellcraft 30 ranks, ability to cast sunburst as a domain spell. Benefits: [Blast] is always considered an associated seed for you when you develop spells which admix only [fire] and [electricity] energy types in a spherical spread effect. You always use primordial energy without considering it a factor in any such epic spell which you develop.
You gain access to a number of esoteric powers which manifest as haloes which extend beyond the area of the blast; creatures within the primary blast radius are also subject to the halo's effects. A single halo can be added to any eligible spell which you cast. You choose the halo to attach at the moment of casting:
Prismatic: Creatures within the area of the halo are subject to the effects of a prismatic spray. The halo extends 40 feet beyond the primary blast radius.
Lucent: The [blast] generates a sunburst effect which extends to 220 feet beyond the primary blast radius. A lucent halo dispels all nonepic spells with the [darkness] descriptor.
Ionic: Any number of targets whom you designate within the blast radius and up to 60 ft. distant from it are struck by additional primordial lightning strikes, each dealing 30d6 points of damage. Evoking an ionic halo deals 2 points of backlash damage.
The halo effect of this feat prompts a second Saving Throw (Reflex half for the ionic or sunburst effect, various Saves against the prismatic halo).
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Prismatic spray (+42) + Heighten (+3) + Range (+4) + Modified shape (+2) + 3x Widened (+9) = 60. This is an 80' radius sphere.
That's why I like 'em so much. Magnipotent + Herald of the [Blast] is big trouble. A very big primordial fireball is appealing.
) then the peerless infusion would be too cheap. But that isn't a problem considering that you can only make one peerless infusion of a spell at a time.
