Backlash

[Cheiromancer]

I don't want to clog up the Epic Spells thread unduly, so I'm transferring the discussion over here. Maybe we'll get a quick consensus, maybe not.


Originally posted by Cheiromancer

BTW, did we ever determine what the mechanical effect of backlash *is*? I seem to recall that straight Con damage seemed unsatisfactory for some reason. Maybe we were wondering what undead sorcerers would use in its place.

Anyway, if we haven't really decided yet, maybe a thread should be started. I'll throw a suggestion into the ring: every two points of backlash reduces the maximum hit points of the spellcaster by 1 hp per hit die. Recoverable by rest. Characters could thus use backlash spells in emergencies, since if they are in the single digits they don't have a lot to lose.

And rather than heal spells neutralizing the cost of backlash, backlash would neutralize the effects of heal.

Originally posted by Sepulchrave II

I'm more-or-less happy with straight Con damage - it's simple, and it directly reflects a hit to vitality. It impacts Fortitude saves and Concentration checks, as well. Truth be told, I think I'd like it even more if backlash extended to Strength and Dexterity as well - all 3 physical stats to be debilitated. But I suspect this might be a little too much. I don't like the idea of the caster 'apportioning' the backlash to a specific score, though. It's too convenient, and backlash should be anything but.

I hadn't really considered undead casters. Maybe they (and other creatures with no Con score) should treat Backlash as a positive energy effect which does 1d6 damage per point: undead have lousy hit points, anyway. Maybe they can choose a mental stat to apply it to. Maybe they can't use it at all; they don't have a 'lifeforce' to draw upon.

Or maybe they can apply it freely (to the limit of their caster level) - it would make epic vampire-sorcerers, liches and demiliches very interesting. They'd effectively have up to 30 points of free factors to add to every spell at 30th level - specifically to things that [blast] and [destroy], where backlash is preferred. Very destructive, in combination with certain feats. I can't say that I'm entirely averse to this idea.

Hmmm. Like your chthonic template. Trouble is, I can see undead PCs being more common than chthonic PCs. If they use the necropolitan template, they won't even take a LA (they lose a level as if by raise dead, but that's it). A lich PC could have their LA all paid off by 30th level. A house -ruled vampire (with severe limitations to spawn and domination abilities) likewise.

The positive energy damage might work. Depends on how easy it is too heal.

How easy is it to heal the Con damage from backlash? I.e. would a heal work, or does it take time and rest?

[Sepulchrave II]

How easy is it to heal the Con damage from backlash? I.e. would a heal work, or does it take time and rest?

I don't think nonepic spells should be effective against it. Maybe an epic [heal] should be allowed an opposed caster level check to counter backlash; otherwise, only natural healing should restore the damage caused by it.

The thing that troubles me is that it will take spellcasters so long to recover (many days), that a story arc will need to be suspended while the party mage rests up. I think a 24-hour turnaround would be OK. Perhaps this:

Backlash
Backlash is a surge of potentially lethal magical energy associated with casting certain epic spells. It may take a variety of apparent forms, and players and GMs are encouraged to be inventive when describing the visible manifestations of backlash. The result of sustaining backlash is always the same, however, regardless of its superficial appearance: debilitating damage to physical ability scores which is resistant to all forms of magical healing.

Each point of backlash sustained by an epic spell imposes a -1 backlash penalty on each of the character's physical ability scores. A character who has his Strength or Dexterity reduced to 0 is paralyzed; a character whose Constitution is reduced to 0 dies. A backlash penalty to ability scores is not subject to magical healing of any kind. After 24 hours, the backlash penalty automatically becomes ability drain: this may be healed normally through magical means (such as greater restoration).

If an epic spell requires it as a mitigating factor, the caster cannot somehow avoid or make him or her self immune to backlash damage, although the Autoimmolator epic feat offsets some of its effects. Moreover, if backlash damage kills a caster, no spell or method exists that will return life to the caster’s body without costing the caster a level—not even wish, true resurrection, miracle, or epic spells that return life to the deceased. Spells that normally penalize the recipient one level when they return him or her to life penalize a caster killed by backlash two levels.

[Cheiromancer]

And if a character is immune to ability drain, they'd recover automatically at the end of the day.

It's simple, and it doesn't introduce a new mechanic. Backlash spells seems like the kind of thing that you would use only when at full hit points, though. Otherwise the hit point loss from the Con penalty would kill you. I'm not sure if this is a feature or a bug. I think the latter; backlash feels like something you'd risk in extremis, not something that you only invoke when you are safe and fully healed up.

A way of doing this would be to stipulate that the Autoimmolator feat has a curative effect when invoked; that is, if the caster experiences a restoration of physical ability damage hit points at the same time as he incurs a backlash penalty.

Would that be possible? I like the notion of trading future vulnerability for immediate power - it's more seductive than having the real cost paid up front.