Originally posted by jmucchiello If you buy my book, I assume only you among your circle of gamers is really going to pay for the PDF. That's almost a given. In fact, how else can you use the PDF without first printing off a few pages and giving them to the DM saying, I want to do this.
I'm glad you look at it this way. I bought your Enchantment book on the basis of some good reviews (btw, I think I was your 100th download!), and was really impressed. I liked it so much that I showed my printed copy to our party's enchanter, and I emailed him the pdf with the express instruction that if he liked it enough to use it, that he go to rpgnow.com to pay you your $5.
When one's budget is able to buy a gaming book OR put food on the family's table, but not always both, it's good to know that there are publishers like you and Malladin's Gate (whose paladin pdf I bought that same day for my own use) that put out high quality ideas at low prices.
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Originally posted by Eridanis I'm glad you look at it this way. I bought your Enchantment book on the basis of some good reviews (btw, I think I was your 100th download!),
I believe that is correct. There are two sales on that day and you are one of them. I was vaguely familiar with your email address when I looked and not the other one so it's probably true.
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and was really impressed. I liked it so much that I showed my printed copy to our party's enchanter, and I emailed him the pdf with the express instruction that if he liked it enough to use it, that he go to rpgnow.com to pay you your $5.
Did he? (just kidding) I'd be more interested in hearing what he may have used from the book. I haven't heard any "war stories" involving my stuff. That would be cool.
Originally posted by HellHound
Sales over 100 copies is something to be proud of.
Honestly, breaking 200 sales makes you a "top 30" product on RPGnow.
The Enchiridion of Mystic Music is #26 on the list (As of this writing) and has sold exactly 160 copies at RPGNow.com (plus I sold one copy directly to a member of my gaming group - he liked it so much he wanted to pay me for it). That should give you some idea of the (little) profit you can make.
As others have suggested, do it to practice your layout/writing, do it for fun, DON'T do it expecting to make money hand over fist.
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The Gaming PDF market is NOT an industry for making money.
That's for sure. I do this for the love of the product, not for the money. The money is nice "pocket change" to fund more gaming purchases (mostly from RPGNow).
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Yes, definitely not for making money. Has anyone thought about approaching Amazon to carry some of these in their ebooks section? Or tried selling them via ebay or other avenues besides Rpgnow.com or via their own storefronts using paypal?
I looked in to Amazon this past spring. If Amazon hasn't changed their policies, I believe they require an ISBN to market PDFs on their pages (not via zShops). www.bowker.com sells ISBNs; 10 ISBNs (the smallest lot you can buy) are $225 for regular processing (or $300 for priority processing).
Now on top of that cash layout, Amazon was taking (If I recall) about 40-45% per sale (this was/is the Advantage program, I believe). I can't find the link now; the bookmark I had is leading me to zshops, so it may be different. But assuming that's still true,
if you buy 10 ISBNs and sell PDFs at $5:
At 100 sales ($500) - ISBN ($225) and Amazon (about $200) = $75 profit for your efforts, whether that's your first magnum opus or your first three.
Of course, after those 100 sales, profits would improve; as mentioned above, 100 sales is nothing to dismiss. Now, Amazon may have changed, if someone has an updated transaction figure and whether or not ISBNs are still required for Amazon -- that may help you decide if you wish to go this route. Physical books sell more copies than PDFs and it makes more sense to use ISBNs for books not ebooks.
Read (with a grain of salt) the newsgroup alt.publish.books for praises and condemnations of Amazon from many small publishers' viewpoints. And, no, I haven't chosen to sell via Amazon.
The Enchiridion of Mystic Music is #26 on the list (As of this writing) and has sold exactly 160 copies at RPGNow.com (plus I sold one copy directly to a member of my gaming group - he liked it so much he wanted to pay me for it). That should give you some idea of the (little) profit you can make.
Is that number correct? Because PJR has already stated his product sold more than that and he is several places down in the best seller list.
Actually, PJR (sounds strange refering to him by his initials) doesn't have any products on the top 30 list, and hasn't claimed sales figures higher than 160 for any of his products in this thread at least. (I believe I read that he had put his products on sale for $2 each as a thank you for over 100 sales of each product).
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Is that number correct? Because PJR has already stated his product sold more than that and he is several places down in the best seller list.
Oddly enough, I have 3 products in the 150s.... so the difference between the bottom 10 or so entries on that list must be less than 10 sales or so in total. The differences evidently get bigger as you move up the list.
Aww, what the hell - here are some figures.
Tournaments, Fairs & Taverns, at #2 on the list, has sold 730 copies to date.
Wild Spellcraft, at #4, has sold 578 copies.
So, that's a difference of 152 sales between positions 2 and 4.
Moving to the bottom of the list, we see above that #26 has sold 160 copies, and positions below #30 can have sold up to 155 copies, which means that the difference between #26 and #31 (at best, could be lower) is only 5 copies or so.
This is fairly educational - it would be cool to get a vague idea of what each position on that chart means in terms of sales. Since I've just shared my figures, anyone else (on the list) care to do the same, so that we can get an idea? Here's the list so far as we know it from the info here:
Interestingly, Phil Read says he's sold 170 copies of 101 Spellbooks, but it's not on the list. That means either the list is screwy (which I have suspected in the past) or that he's sellng a lot of copies in places other than RPGNow.
Actually, if people are willing to participate and share their sales figures, I'd like to make this list fairly public. It'd be of great help to those planning on going into PDF sales.
Originally posted by HellHound Actually, PJR (sounds strange refering to him by his initials) doesn't have any products on the top 30 list, and hasn't claimed sales figures higher than 160 for any of his products in this thread at least. (I believe I read that he had put his products on sale for $2 each as a thank you for over 100 sales of each product).
Well he did say "almost 170 copies of 101 Spellbooks". I guessing that is in the 160s. or else it should have been almost 160
Sorry, I'm not on a first name basis with him, so I used that instead of having to write out his whole name.... I'm lazy like that.
Originally posted by Morrus
Interestingly, Phil Read says he's sold 170 copies of 101 Spellbooks, but it's not on the list. That means either the list is screwy (which I have suspected in the past) or that he's sellng a lot of copies in places other than RPGNow.
I imagine the list is a little screwy.
Then there are combined sales to figure into account.
And issues such as our Moon Elves, which had reasonable sales.. and then we dropped that count when it switched under the Nautral 20 Press banner... which means its currently only accounting for about 3/4 of its sales... and somehow every once and a while gets a sale applied to the old product ID number.
Originally posted by Morrus Aww, what the hell - here are some figures.
Don't you feel better now.
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Interestingly, Phil Read says he's sold 170 copies of 101 Spellbooks, but it's not on the list. That means either the list is screwy (which I have suspected in the past) or that he's sellng a lot of copies in places other than RPGNow.
He does sell through paypal on his website.
Joe
Holding steady at 125
Edit: can't spell
Last edited by jmucchiello; 13th November 2002 at 04:38 PM..
#6 = 528 sales = Librum Equitis volume 1
#13 = 329 sales = Thee Compleat Librum ov Gar'Udok's Necromantic Artes
#19 = 232 sales = Librum Equitis volume 2
and not ranked...
149 sales = Everyone Else
4,779 = Portable Hole Full of Beer
So yes, we are stuck in a limbo of "not quite good enough sales" to make it to the top 30.
As for the #5 & #6 slots, I've been trading back and forth with Inns and Taverns floorplans for the #5 slot, so they are probably holding it by less than a five copy margin right now. So we have figures on #2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 13, 19. I'm sure we can strong arm Tensen into giving up the #9 sales slot data too.
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Last edited by HellHound; 13th November 2002 at 04:58 PM..
Originally posted by HellHound 149 Everyone Else, not 129, but that's not here nor there since it hasn't broken into the top 30 yet.
I edited it anyway. This info is useful for people who want to know how far off the bottom of the list they are. I much preferred the Top 40 to that silly Weekly Sales thing.
Last edited by Morrus; 13th November 2002 at 05:43 PM..
Right now, the new products are coming out so fast that a product gets pushed off the "New This Month" listing within 2 weeks of release. But good sales of a product keep it visible through the week's top 10 list.
__________________
The man they said would cause too much controversy for the ENnies - now running for judge!
www.DREADGAZEBO.com
One site with all my gaming stuff
CyberPunk, Star Frontiers, HeroQuest, deadEarth and GunPorn
Actually I pushed for the Top 10 weekly sales.
Although I did also push for longer lists in each of the categories. So if you go into the d20 Fantasy list you can sort of judge how far off the main list you are.
Originally posted by HellHound I like the weekly sales top 10.
Right now, the new products are coming out so fast that a product gets pushed off the "New This Month" listing within 2 weeks of release. But good sales of a product keep it visible through the week's top 10 list.
Yeah, but about 8 sales in a 7 day period will get you anywhere from 4th to 8th place depending on the age of the other releases that are currently "hot". It's really a what's hot list. The placement order fluctuates too much. If it was "Top 10 sales for Nov 3 - Nov 9", and there were archives, it might be more meaningful.
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