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Jürgen Hubert

11 Reasons Why I Prefer D&D 4E

Rating: 4 votes, 4.00 average.
  • No long-term advance planning for PC character development. No longer do players have to worry how precisely to build their characters at first level when they want to take a specific prestige class twelve levels later. Now they can take character advancement one level at a time.
  • Easier high-level PC creation. Creating high-level PCs - whether to replace an existing character or to start a campaign at a high level in the first place - is now simplicity in itself. You do no longer have to worry about what choices your character made at lower level - thanks to retraining, it's easy to justify the current character feats, powers, and skills. Similarly, picking magic items is easy - you start with three items with specific levels, and have some spare cash over to purchase weaker items.
  • Fighters are now actually interesting. In 3.5, Fighters usually did little more than doing the same attacks over and over again, and their only real tactical choices involved which enemy to hit. No longer - they now have a variety of options as large as that of the other classes.
  • Less-complex high-level spellcasters. Once your player characters hit double digits, deciding which spells your high-level wizards, clerics, and druids choose every day became a real chore, and it frequently held up the game while the players of these characters made up their mind. No longer - even wizards, who still can make some choices in that regard, now spend much less time on figuring out their daily spell lists.
  • No class is useless in a specific fight. Who doesn't know the frustration of a rogue in a fight that involved constructs or undead? Or of a monk in a fight that involved only monsters with the "wrong" type of damage resistance? Or of a wizard when all the enemies had high spell resistances? Some classes were pretty much ineffective against certain kinds of enemies, leaving their players frustrated when an adventure featured them strongly. This is now pretty much gone, and for this I am grateful.
  • Rituals. Separating most of the non-combat spells into rituals was a stroke of genius. Now the list of available rituals can be modified at the DM's leisure without giving a specific class too much power or taking too much power away from it. It also makes it easier for world-builders - they no longer have to take hundreds of spell effects into account when figuring out how magic may have impacted society. Conversely, since you do no longer have to be a high-level member of a specific class when you want to cast specific rituals, it's easy to justify NPCs who can cast individual rituals without making them into powerful combat spellcasters, turning them into "support roles" within the adventure without having to explain why they don't defeat the enemies of the local community instead of the PCs.
  • Skill challenges. Skill challenges are a blast to run. They allow the DM to say: "I think these skills would be the most appropriate in this situation, but feel free to convince me of the appropriateness of other skills at well." This allows the PCs to get really creative with their skill uses and gives them a level of narrative control that I was really surprised seeing in a D&D edition.
  • Minions. Minions are lots of fun for the DM. They allow me to "swarm" the player characters without overwhelming them, or without making me keep track of the hit points of large numbers of enemies. Back in 3.5, having two dozen enemies attack the PCs at once was a logistic nightmare. Now, it's no problem at all.
  • Easier high-level NPC creation. In D&D 3.5, I was so frustrated with how much time I spent on creating high-level NPCs - time I could have used on developing the actual plot of the adventure - that I even created a Wiki to have better access to a large number of NPCs (ironically, the wiki became a huge hit while I soon afterwards abandoned D&D 3.5 for other RPGs...). But now, creating high-level NPCs is even easier than creating high-level PCs. Thanks to the straightforward level bonus, calculating derived stats is a snap that doesn't even involve looking up a variety of tables, and giving them specific powers is a straightforward process which doesn't take up much time.
  • Easier monster creation/modification. Building and modifying monsters now is much easier. For my playtest adventure, I built an Aufhocker, a fey creature from German mythology that jumps on the backs of people and frightens them to near-death, and I was astonished how easy the process was. 3.5 sorely lacked such detailed guidelines.
  • In-depth discussion on building encounters and monster roles. The chapter on building encounters and monster roles in the DMG is one of the most impressive pieces of GMing advice I have seen in any RPG. The CRs in 3.5 were extremely vague in comparison. Lengthily explaining how different types of monsters interact with each other in a fight, and giving them according roles that they are built around irrespective of origin was a stroke of genius!
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  1. lyle.spade's Avatar
    I agree completely -- those are all the things I've either identified as improvements while reading, or experienced during each session we've played. I think I forced my group to switch to 4e...I DM, and I got the books, and I announced that for many good reasons, I was not going to run 3.5 anymore, and that I wanted to run 4e if we were going to play DnD. Now my players have the books, too, and we're enjoying the system tremendously.

    Good post.
  2. Inari7's Avatar
    Here are a couple of my additons....
    12. First level and low-level characters don't die in droves anymore. You can have some pretty good low-level adventures without fear of death every time you meet a goblin or two. Wizards and Thieves are just as viable as characters at low level then fighters and clerics.

    13. No dump Stats: All the ability scores are used and they are important in 4E. In previous editions of D&D ability scores were used but not as extensively as in 4E. In Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Charisma was barely used except if you wanted to use henchmen and or if you want to be a Paladin. Now that stat could be used each combat.
  3. chris.m.durham's Avatar
    While I have my complaints - and everyone does - I think that taken as a whole, 4th edition is the best thing to happen to D&D in almost 30 years. Playing this game feels more like it did playing when I was 8 years old than I have since. This edition is just playable.
  4. Verdande's Avatar
    While I agree with you, I certainly disagree on the part about skill challenges.

    I don't really like how, for example, diplomatic negotiations, getting lost, and diarming a trap are pushed to one side and turned into a dicefest instead of an opportunity for roleplay. While certainly a hundred thousand times better than 3e's methods, it still leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.

    I understand that you're supposed to roleplay while you do these things, but I still forsee myself taking out the section on skill challenges entirely.
  5. seankreynolds's Avatar
    Meh, decided not to say anything. Sorry!
    Updated 28th August 2008 at 11:31 PM by seankreynolds
  6. Mortellan's Avatar
    Those are all pretty good reasons except the one about PCs being effective in every fight. As a DM I would be bored senseless if all the PCs could handily harm every opponent they ever encountered. It's just unrealistic even for fantasy! Sometimes a foe is just going to be tougher than expected, so why not RUN?! Fantasy literature is rife with examples of this and 3.x handled it fine IMO. But no in 4E every fight has to be winable or else the players get frustrated, flight or surrender is not an option.
  7. Jack Colby's Avatar
    Um, congratulations, and thanks for sharing your preference in game system with the world?
  8. Jürgen Hubert's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Colby
    Um, congratulations, and thanks for sharing your preference in game system with the world?
    You make it sound as if there is something wrong with that.
  9. Mustrum_Ridcully's Avatar
    But no in 4E every fight has to be winable or else the players get frustrated, flight or surrender is not an option.
    No, that doesn't have to be the case. Of course, if you follow CR guidelines in 3E or the encounter design guidelines in 4E, you will rarely have this situation.

    I understand that you're supposed to roleplay while you do these things, but I still forsee myself taking out the section on skill challenges entirely.
    If you don't want to roll the dice for resolving such a thing, don't do it. Admittedly, ignoring parts of the game system is never a strength of the game system, but as you said - it's still better then single-die-roll resolutions of 3E core.

    What I like about skill challenges is that you can use the basic idea to structure non-combat encounters and even encounters. Every die roll or every success required can represent one scene or one thing the PCs have to do attain their goal. The standard resolution is mixing role-playing with rolling the dice - either describe what you want to do and roll the dice to see if it works, or roll the dice and use the result to inform your role-playing. The "lazy way" out is just rolling dice, with no concern for description or characterisation of what you do.
    But if you want "pure" role-playing, you could describe a scene where the player has to figure out what he can do and how he can solve the problem. (What does he say to the guard to let him through - will he remind him of the time where he helped the city watch, or will he bribe him? Does he climb over the wall or hide behind the cart, or create a diversion by throwing an alchemists fire in the merchants stand?). And you can use this on a larger scale, too - for example, solving a mystery, the individual scenes are typically investigation of a (crime) scene, interrogation of a suspect, asking witnesses...
  10. Keoki's Avatar
    Quote:
    13. No dump Stats: All the ability scores are used and they are important in 4E.

    If only it were so. While I like 4E overall, it has made Intelligence a dump stat for most classes, now that you get no extra skills from it. Even the bonus languages were done away with. I was considering a house rule wherein the number of trained skills for each class would be reduced by one (two for warlock and wizard), and characters would receive a number of bonus trained skills equal to their Int modifier.

    As it stands, there's a bunch of really stupid adventurers running around. Whatever happened to the wily rogue or the studied priest? Being so now in the rules as written is just disadvantaging oneself.
  11. Mage189's Avatar
    I'm afraid I'm going to disagree on bullet number three there. The fighter has not been made more interesting, the other classes have been toned down to work on the fighters scale.

    Anyone whose had the annoyance of a low level party in a relatively challenging encounter would probably notice a lot of boredom. Once the daily and the encounter power were spent, every single class I've seen in 4th edition breaks down to just using one at will power over and over again.

    There is just no variety on what you can do. We've got nothing for disarming opponents, the grappling rules are pretty much just sacrifice your actions to be a tanglefoot bag. I know the game has been taken down to the level of miniatures skirmish game, but it's getting really dull to play.

    Personally I'm getting pretty sick of it too, but all we're playing are living forgotten realms adventures lately so at least it's not something we need to spend a lot of time planning for.
  12. demonking1's Avatar
    I agree with everything on this list. I have dmed and played many 4e and 3e games. 4e is amazing and much much better even though 3e was really good. 4e may have some problems, but so does every one. with all of the anti-4e posts going around, I'm glad to see this blog entry!
  13. hopeless's Avatar
    First you've got to be able to hit them, second if they consist of up to 10 or more minions and a number of actual foes how do you stand a chance when you're dependent on a dm who doesn't understand there are some things a first level character cannot face even under 4e rules.
  14. Inari7's Avatar
    You are always dependent on the DM for every encounter no matter what edition you play.
    4E has some good guide-lines (the best yet for D&D) but if you DM decides to ignore the suggestions, and makes the game unfun then it's time to take up the DM reigns yourself or find another group.
  15. SpydersWebbing's Avatar
    Mage 189,

    I'd have to disagree. The DM's guide tells DMs to design interesting terrain into fights for situations like that. As you go up in level just scale up the terrain effects so that way they're still a fun way to finish people off.

    I thougth they did talk about Disarming, namely, roll a Dex vs. Reflex check, and if you make it, they're disarmed. At least, that's what I remember.

    Ultimately 4th tells you the basic system, and then tells you to make up stuff for it. It's very flexible, but won't pander to people who can't think.
  16. Pyre_Born's Avatar
    I've DMed and played in 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0, but for MY campaingns I have to disagree with the OP. Our group was lucky enough to not need many of the "fixes" 4e brought, we weeded out major min-maxers, and after Bo9S the fighter issue was gone. Not saying 3.x was perfect, but ofr us it was better. But I'm glad you're enjoying 4e, it's a great system!