NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

Upper_Krust · 21st January 2007, 07:29 PM

Hey all!

Okay, the old thread was getting unwieldy.

I wanted to bring up an idea I have been contemplating for a week or so and ask everyones opinions. Ascension has been dragging on for too long now (yes I know thats my fault), but I think I have a solution to getting it done much quicker. Basically I am thinking about dividing Ascension into two books. So hear me out...

Immortals Handbook - Ascension (160 pages)...basically the first four chapters.

Immortals Handbook - Ascension Companion (64 pages)...basically the appendices (plus I will probably throw in some new stuff).

Anyone who already preordered Ascension would get both pdfs (don't worry about that).

I think this way I can get Ascension done within weeks (including the art that is) rather than a few months, as it still looks.

Any comments, suggestions? Like I said I want to get some feedback on the idea first, I haven't totally made my mind up as yet.

Pssthpok · 21st January 2007, 07:35 PM

Will Resonance be included in either volume?

When you say 'appendices', you mean the sample builds right?

How much time do you think you have left on the mechanical (i.e. portfolios, resonance, Chpt. 4 Tables, et al) side of the text before you'd print it out for play at your table?

Frankly, I think anything to focus the effort is a good thing. Concentrate on getting the machien running, then elaborate with the deity builds.

WarDragon · 21st January 2007, 07:57 PM

I agree with Pssthpok; we've got people waiting on Ascension who haven't pre-ordered, and they're getting testy. The sample builds can wait, provided you clear up a couple things that don't appear outside them. For example, without Surtr and Algol, I would never have known that [Effect] save DCs are Con-based, or that deities use their full HD for caster level.

paradox42 · 21st January 2007, 08:49 PM

Agreed with the above here, too. Mechanically, I think it's nearly done, but it's clear that you bit off more than you could chew in such things as the number of sample Portfolios, the sheer mass of abilities, and other similar points. The basic, core rules you built everything around seem to be fairly solid at this point; that's what Ascension really should be more than anything else. Just add the Resonance rules into chapter 1, get the "make your own Portfolios" and other portfolio meta-rules back into the beginning of chapter 3, and you're pretty much set. The sample builds aren't worth getting hung up on, nor are a few minor issues with individual Portfolio powers and weaknesses as long as you give general guidelines for how to make the silly things in the first place.

It's like the adage about giving a man a fish so he eats for a day, as opposed to teaching him to fish so he feeds himself for a lifetime. Right now, you're the only fisherman; we want to learn how to fish from you and that's what we understood Ascension to be about.

So how about finishing the class? Let the examples and exercises wait. Eyes on the prize!

Upper_Krust · 21st January 2007, 09:37 PM

Hi Pssthpok mate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pssthpok

Will Resonance be included in either volume?

Of course. I just got bogged down on a technical issue and decided to progress onto the other chapters, leaving Resonance temporarily on the backburner.

The same sort of issues complicated progress on the Portfolios chapter. If you get stuck on one part, even a name of a power, do you spend time to thrash it out or go on to the next and try and get as much done on the one pass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pssthpok

When you say 'appendices', you mean the sample builds right?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pssthpok

How much time do you think you have left on the mechanical (i.e. portfolios, resonance, Chpt. 4 Tables, et al) side of the text before you'd print it out for play at your table?

Well I think by the next update (31st) the text (of the 1st 4 Chapters) could be ready, but I am sure there would still be editing issues - spellchecking only covers so much. But between the finished text and the finished art I think I/we would spot most of the errata.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pssthpok

Frankly, I think anything to focus the effort is a good thing. Concentrate on getting the machien running, then elaborate with the deity builds.

Exactly.

Ltheb Silverfrond · 21st January 2007, 09:39 PM

I agree; Ascension, in all its awesomeness, is taking a bit of time. Splitting it up might be the right idea, but as others have said, lots of 'minor' details need to be included.

Most of us who have taken a look at Ascension as it has progressed can make some guesswork as to how things work, but only because whenever we had an issue, you provided the answer, U_K.

[Effects] need to be clarified a bit (Atomic effect and Thelemic effect stand out as complicated) , and the portfolios finished. Resonance needs to be written, and the art to be done.

Perhaps it might be best for you to Finish Ascension so that you get a bit more cash in your pocket, since the status of the Bestiary in print is unknown. (Oh, and if you get word on when it hits the shelves, let us know

) The Immortal's Appendix could be included in the PDF, or separately in the appropriate Immortal's Index books.

That said, a week or two of pure Editing and proofreading and a week of Art-grinding and you sir will be finished.

Upper_Krust · 21st January 2007, 09:46 PM

Happy Birthday WarDragon mate!

Hey paradox dude!

Quote:

Originally Posted by paradox42

Agreed with the above here, too. Mechanically, I think it's nearly done, but it's clear that you bit off more than you could chew in such things as the number of sample Portfolios, the sheer mass of abilities, and other similar points.

I always do that. I keep adding and changing things and before you know it you are planning 20 books.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paradox42

The basic, core rules you built everything around seem to be fairly solid at this point; that's what Ascension really should be more than anything else. Just add the Resonance rules into chapter 1, get the "make your own Portfolios" and other portfolio meta-rules back into the beginning of chapter 3, and you're pretty much set. The sample builds aren't worth getting hung up on, nor are a few minor issues with individual Portfolio powers and weaknesses as long as you give general guidelines for how to make the silly things in the first place.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paradox42

It's like the adage about giving a man a fish so he eats for a day, as opposed to teaching him to fish so he feeds himself for a lifetime. Right now, you're the only fisherman; we want to learn how to fish from you and that's what we understood Ascension to be about.

So how about finishing the class? Let the examples and exercises wait. Eyes on the prize!

Okay. So it seems you guys are all in favour of the idea.

Reveille · 21st January 2007, 10:17 PM

I support you either way UK! Do waht you have to do, I know the material will rock!

SokenzanMarauder · 22nd January 2007, 12:52 AM

Well, if you do split it up how are you going to allow those of us that have pre-ordered to download the other files through ENWorld? Manually add them to our bookshelves or something? I'm not being condescending (I know it sounds like I am, sorry), just curious is all.

As for whether or not you do split it up, that's largely up to you, though personally if you do I'd like to have some of the less clear rules clarified.

Regards,
-Gene

Upper_Krust · 22nd January 2007, 02:34 PM

Thanks for the feedback Ltheb and Frukathka!

Hi SokenzanMarauder dude!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SokenzanMarauder

Well, if you do split it up how are you going to allow those of us that have pre-ordered to download the other files through ENWorld? Manually add them to our bookshelves or something? I'm not being condescending (I know it sounds like I am, sorry), just curious is all.

Well I think I should be able to include both pdfs in a zip file, so the updating process would be the same. Does that sound okay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SokenzanMarauder

As for whether or not you do split it up, that's largely up to you, though personally if you do I'd like to have some of the less clear rules clarified.

Well I need to start putting together a list of all the things rules that people want further clarified/revised. That should probably be a thread on its own.

SokenzanMarauder · 22nd January 2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upper_Krust

Hi SokenzanMarauder dude!

Heya!

Quote:

Well I think I should be able to include both pdfs in a zip file, so the updating process would be the same. Does that sound okay?

Very good idea, oddly enough I never even thought of that.

Quote:

Well I need to start putting together a list of all the things rules that people want further clarified/revised. That should probably be a thread on its own.

If you did that it'd definately make things much easier, you probably wouldn't even have to compile it as it'd all be 'right there.'

Regards,
-Gene

Anabstercorian · 22nd January 2007, 04:38 PM

Yes, a 'fix this plz' thread would be very useful.

Ltheb Silverfrond · 22nd January 2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anabstercorian

Yes, a 'fix this plz' thread would be very useful.

I threw together a "fix this plz" thread.

Phantom Llama · 24th January 2007, 01:30 AM

From the 'fix this' thread, which should probably remain uncluttered by discussion:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pssthpok

Skills are suddenly Dex?

The Skill portfolio is essentially the Dexterity portfolio, yes. It presumably pertains to physical skills like juggling, acrobatics etcetera rather than 'talent' in general, which would be a very broad portfolio. I think it's poorly-named too, but I can't think of a better term yet. As for the Con penalty, the lightning-fast person who can't take any hits that manage to land is a very strong archetype, which seems to be what the stat penalties are based on.

I think the text suffers somewhat from the decision to set all portfolios in opposed pairs, leading to odd oppositions like Knowledge/Secrets (this one led to another of your complaints) or Science/Magic.

Ltheb Silverfrond · 24th January 2007, 02:03 AM

Yea the Knowledge vs Secrets thing is a bit odd.
Science vs Magic I can understand.
As for Death/Undeath; I can see it going both ways; Perhaps the Death domain should just be unable to boost constitution with magic items (Single), or Penalty (double)?

Pssthpok · 24th January 2007, 03:10 PM

If skills are Dex, why is it opposed by Luck?

It makes no sense.

Lucky people aren't be default clumsy, nor vice-versa.

Upper_Krust · 25th January 2007, 04:43 PM

Hi Pssthpok mate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pssthpok

If skills are Dex, why is it opposed by Luck?

It makes no sense.

Lucky people aren't be default clumsy, nor vice-versa.

Luck assumes you rely on luck rather than skill to succeed.

Someone with the Skill portfolio might comment "When you are this good you don't need luck."

WarDragon · 27th January 2007, 04:16 AM

Upper_Krust,

I had an idea for a new subset of the [Effect] divine abilities; Infusion. This ability would apply the effect to either a deity's damaging spells, or spell-like abilities, or one supernatural ability. I'm wondering if this would be balanced, and if so, what HD percentage it should be. Here's a breakdown of what it would do:

If the base is 1/32...
A 45 HD Lesser Deity with Superior Energy Infusion would deal an extra 4d6 energy damage with every damaging spell.
A 65 HD Intermediate Deity with Energy Mastery (Perfect Infusion) would deal 8d6 extra damage.
A 90 HD Greater Deity with Energy Mastery would deal an extra 11d6; a little better than Empowering a spell twice that normally caps at 10d6.

If the base is 1/16...
A 45 HD Lesser Deity with Superior Energy Infusion would deal an extra 8d6 energy damage with every damaging spell.
A 65 HD Intermediate Deity with Energy Mastery (Perfect Infusion) would deal 16d6 extra damage.
A 90 HD Greater Deity with Energy Mastery would deal an extra 22d6.

If the base is 1/8...
A 45 HD Lesser Deity with Superior Energy Infusion would deal an extra 16d6 energy damage with every damaging spell.
A 65 HD Intermediate Deity with Energy Mastery (Perfect Infusion) would deal 32d6 extra damage.
A 90 HD Greater Deity with Energy Mastery would deal an extra 45d6.

mercucio · 27th January 2007, 07:41 PM

U_K, can you provide some examples of Uncanny Wind Mastery. I'm working on my version of Odin and its effects seem kind of nebulous. It is supposed to be some kind of knockback effect?

Pssthpok · 29th January 2007, 01:44 PM

Update tomorrow, right?

I doubt it.

I also doubt that it will look like 10 days' worth of work, either.

See what you've done to my enthusiasm, UK.