Okay, since people wanted one, I threw the "fix this" thread together. People should post what parts of Ascension need changing.
If you have a change, try to list "exactly" where it is. Don't list a feat number or page number, those change, but I think if you list the chapter and the general area, U_K should be able to find it.
Ill start us off with a few from chapter 4:
Chapter 4: Atomic Effect: Calculating the damage and ability damage is really complicated. Is there an easier formula.
Chapter 4: Thelemic Effect: If you take it multiple times, it says "original effect, doubled" but "doubling" the numeric factor would actually make this power weaker.
Chapter 4: Powers in general: Thelemic effect mentions it, but you list earlier under the Transmortality power that some really strong powers can still kill you. Perhaps those powers should get a "special:" note. (Ones I can think of: Omega Effect and Astro Effect seem like likely candidates)
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Originally Posted by Anabstercorian
What if someone wanted to play an Awakened Neutronium Golem Wizard?
I don't know whether this is a thing of beauty or evil.
An inside joke my group has is to check each update of the immortals handbooks ascension to see if one of the feats is still the same.
Legendary Archer:
reqs: dex 25
You no longer require sleep
We all agree though that this would be a good trait for the archer in our group to take as it would approve his sniping ability if he were not to sleep. A sniper asleep on the job is no good to anyone.
You need to make a note of how the [Effect] save DCs are determined, as well as the Blast's area of effect. I'd not have known what they were, if not for the example deities.
You should think about changing or simply dropping "Verge of Death", since not all people interested in Death are interested in undeath.
Assassin gods, for example, shouldn't lose their Con score. Living necromancer gods shouldn't either. Wee Jas would have Death and Magic, but she'd still have a Con score.
Why can't people with Magic gain benefits to Wisdom? What about a cleric deity with Magic and Healing?
Why does the Revenge portfolio penalize Charisma? Same goes for Science. Are these copy/paste errors?
Why does a deity with the Secrets portfolio suffer a penalty to Intelligence. That's bass-akwards, if you ask me. Just because they sacrifice on the altar of hidden knowledge doesn't imply a lack of intelligence. If you insist on this idea, I'd prefer if they simply couldn't benefit from Int-boosting effects rather than eat massive penalties.
Skill Portfolio = Fly's Endurance. What? Why?
Wartorn, from the War portfolio... what? In all situations? Maybe this could be clarified.
Wisdom... Pig's Splendor... what's the connection with this weakness that makes it so pervasive?
Copy/paste errors are still in many places in the document, but others are starting to point those out so I'll refrain from doing so here.
What jars me the most, when reading Ascension (and also, to a lesser extent, the Bestiary I) is the number of incomplete sentences and sentence fragments. Most of these in Ascension are sentences where the author started to write something but couldn't or didn't complete the thought; others (the most common type in Bestiary I, but prevalent in Ascension as well) are apparent complete sentences which are nevertheless incomplete thoughts due to not having complete grammatical structure.
An example of the latter will show what I mean. Page 40, within the description of Anomalies, the following sentence exists: "Creatures otherwise superfluous to cosmic balance but possessed of power enough to give even a time lord pause." That's incomplete- it's a description of Anomalies, but there's no verb. What are these terrible creatures doing? In this case, and in fact most of them as far as I can tell, it would be more grammatically correct to turn the sentence fragment into an extension of the previous one. In the example given above, the preceding sentence reads "Anomalies are extra-cosmic abominations." Lump the two together and you get "Anomalies are extra-cosmic abominations- creatures otherwise superfluous to cosmic balance but possessed of power enough to give even a time lord pause." That's a complete sentence.
Examples of the former include the second sentence on page 37 under the DIMENSION WAR subheading- "However, as the universe expanded dimensional tectonics caused bleeding and tears to appear, through which" (it ends there in clear mid-sentence). Another example, on the next page, is in the first paragraph describing Elder Ones: "Each is the personification of ." Personification of what?
__________________ "I am a vampiric half-dragon half-troll lycanthropic fiendish snail! Tremble at my illogical glory!" -The Tongue is Mightier Than the Sword, OotS, Dragon #345
"Come to the Far Realmy side...we have pseudonatural cookies..." - Tlin, Alienoid Warlock, during a game session in March 2007
You should think about changing or simply dropping "Verge of Death", since not all people interested in Death are interested in undeath.
Assassin gods, for example, shouldn't lose their Con score. Living necromancer gods shouldn't either. Wee Jas would have Death and Magic, but she'd still have a Con score.
Why can't people with Magic gain benefits to Wisdom? What about a cleric deity with Magic and Healing?
Why does the Revenge portfolio penalize Charisma? Same goes for Science. Are these copy/paste errors?
Why does a deity with the Secrets portfolio suffer a penalty to Intelligence. That's bass-akwards, if you ask me. Just because they sacrifice on the altar of hidden knowledge doesn't imply a lack of intelligence. If you insist on this idea, I'd prefer if they simply couldn't benefit from Int-boosting effects rather than eat massive penalties.
Skill Portfolio = Fly's Endurance. What? Why?
Wartorn, from the War portfolio... what? In all situations? Maybe this could be clarified.
Wisdom... Pig's Splendor... what's the connection with this weakness that makes it so pervasive?
U_K seems to have the ability scores in opposing pairs; Str/Int, Dex/Con, Wis/Cha. Given that, it makes sense for a portfolio based on one to penalize the other.
So a sorcerer deity with Revenge would be a less-effective spell-caster?
I think I'd rather see these template penalties be a matter of inability to increase rather than (up to) -2x divine rank penalty. I mean, for some builds that would reduce a score to less than 1. What the hell's that about?
So a sorcerer deity with Revenge would be a less-effective spell-caster?
I think I'd rather see these template penalties be a matter of inability to increase rather than (up to) -2x divine rank penalty. I mean, for some builds that would reduce a score to less than 1. What the hell's that about?
I agree with this, actually. Weaknesses associated with a Portfolio should be about vulnerabilities to damage types, or penalties to certain skills or saves under correct circumstances, not blanket reductions of basic character-building attributes like the ability scores. The only case where I would even consider ability score penalties to be appropriate is for Portfolios that actually are all about the opposed ability score, for example a Strength deity loses points in Intelligence. A deity of Knowledge should not have a STR penalty, because the Portfolio is not the Intelligence Portfolio- however close it may come in terms of skill use. Only an actual deity of Intelligence should get a STR penalty as a Portfolio weakness.
It is important to keep in mind that Portfolios are typically abstract concepts, with many shades of gray in their meaning and use; the PC in my second game who has the Dominance and Concealment Portfolios, for example, will not be getting Law and Secrets from the IH (the two closest samples to those concepts that I could find). I will instead be making two new ones for the character, and even if Concealment (for example) comes close to Secrets in terms of concept and what it does, it is not the same Portfolio and will not be treated as such.
Also, it should be noted that not everybody assigns ability score opposites the same way; for example, I would never set up two physical scores or two mental scores as opposed to each other- it just doesn't make sense to me. I always match one physical to one mental when thinking that way. STR opposes INT, DEX opposes WIS, CHA opposes CON is the way I would typically do it- and I could see certain circumstances where I would change those designations too.
__________________ "I am a vampiric half-dragon half-troll lycanthropic fiendish snail! Tremble at my illogical glory!" -The Tongue is Mightier Than the Sword, OotS, Dragon #345
"Come to the Far Realmy side...we have pseudonatural cookies..." - Tlin, Alienoid Warlock, during a game session in March 2007
An inside joke my group has is to check each update of the immortals handbooks ascension to see if one of the feats is still the same.
Legendary Archer:
reqs: dex 25
You no longer require sleep
We all agree though that this would be a good trait for the archer in our group to take as it would approve his sniping ability if he were not to sleep. A sniper asleep on the job is no good to anyone.
An explanation of how you get a B.A.B. of greater than 20 would be appreciated. Unless you count Epic B.A.B. bonuses. In either case it needs clarified.
The "Heroism" lines of Perfect Aura and Superior Aura still say "+2 morale bonus" instead of something higher. Greater Aura does say +4, so I presume the others should be +6 and +8, respectively.
Page 16, The Power. "There are two approaches to dealing with such players. Firstly, ..." You don't have a "secondly".
Page 18, Resonance. "So while the path to enlightenment through resonance is quick and easy," the sentence ends here. Finish the sentence.
The table of contents will also need to be reworked eventually, but I know you should get to that AFTER everything else.
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I'm inclined to agree in regards to ability penalties being a bit too unscrupulous. I think there needs to be some sort of penalty related to opposed portfolios instead. Perhaps the weaknesses only apply when dealing with those opposed portfolios instead of constantly. I also think some opposed portfolios need not be so opposed. For example...in one of my campaign worlds is a god of magic and science. He is a cyborg who worshiped a god of magic for many hundreds of years and was then granted ascension. In his mind magic and science are simply opposite sides of the same coin. He is quite a powerful Cleric (40th), Fighter (12th), Rogue (38th), and Wizard (40th), who still worships his former master and serves the will of the pantheon of that world. Still only a hero deity, but still quite conflicted in terms of portfolios.
I've also read in a great deal of literature that there are fantasy worlds with gods that represent twin portfolios that are completely opposed to one another.
Last edited by dante58701; 5th February 2007 at 05:29 PM..
What are these terrible creatures doing? In this case, and in fact most of them as far as I can tell, it would be more grammatically correct to turn the sentence fragment into an extension of the previous one. In the example given above, the preceding sentence reads "Anomalies are extra-cosmic abominations." Lump the two together and you get "Anomalies are extra-cosmic abominations- creatures otherwise superfluous to cosmic balance but possessed of power enough to give even a time lord pause." That's a complete sentence.
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