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Old 11th May 2007, 11:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
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dante58701 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
New/Revised Prestige Classes

Ok... heres a class Ive been working on for a while...a 3.5 variation on the Shadowjack and Techno Mage themes. I was never quite satisfied with either and 3.5 needs to high tech classes for those who like playing in the modern era...but dont like wasting class levels on things like Strong, Fast, Tough, ect. (for some reason people keep wussing out fantasy modern stuff...I just dont get it personally). So heres a basic idea of what Im looking at for new/revised prestige classes.

If it needs any tweaks, please let me know. Criticize the hell out of it. that way I can make it better.

Also...let me know if any of the wording needs rearranged from a grammatical perspective...I really want to get this one right.




Shibboleth

[Insert Fluff Here]

Requirements

To qualify to become a Shibboleth, a character must fulfill the following criteria.

Skills: Computer Use 6 ranks, Craft (electronic) 6 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Knowledge (arcane lore) 6 ranks, and Repair 6 ranks.
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast prepared spells.

Class Information

Shibboleth have the following game statistics.

Table: The Shibboleth Hit Die: d4
Code:
            Base       Fort   Ref   Will
Level   Attack Bonus   Save   Save  Save   Special                     Spellcasting
  1          +0         +0     +0    +2    Read/write code             +1 level of existing class
  2          +1         +0     +0    +3    Spellfiles                  +1 level of existing class
  3          +1         +1     +1    +3    Online presence             +1 level of existing class
  4          +2         +1     +1    +4    Create digital homunculus   +1 level of existing class
  5          +2         +1     +1    +4    Program spell               +1 level of existing class
  6          +3         +2     +2    +5    Shibboleth abilities        +1 level of existing class
  7          +3         +2     +2    +5    Shibboleth abilities        +1 level of existing class
  8          +4         +2     +2    +6    Shibboleth abilities        +1 level of existing class
  9          +4         +3     +3    +6    Shibboleth abilities        +1 level of existing class
 10          +5         +3     +3    +7    Online spellcasting         +1 level of existing class
Class Skills (2 + Intelligence modifier per level): Computer Use, Concentration, Craft (electronic, writing), Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Gamble, Gather Information, Intimidate, Investigate, Knowledge (arcana, history, technology), Profession, Read/Write Language, Repair, Research, Search, Speak Language, Spellcraft.

Class Features

All of the following are the prestige class features of the Shibboleth.

Read/Write Code (Ex): At 1st level, the Shibboleth can understand both the nature of raw computer code and what the program is intended to accomplish when implemented. On a successful Decipher Script check (DC 10 + Computer Use skill modifier of the code's author), the Shibboleth can determine both the function of the program and any bugs or potential weak points in the design. If weak points are found, the Shibboleth gains a +2 insight bonus on Computer Use checks attempting to degrade the program.

Spellfiles (Ex): At 2nd level, the Shibboleth acquires the ability to utilize spellfiles as an additional alternative medium to record spells. As with any ordinary medium, such as the more prevalent spellbook, the Shibboleth must study his spellfiles each day to prepare his spells. The Shibboleth can't prepare any spell not recorded in his spellfiles (except for read magic, which the Shibboleth can prepare from memory, and any spell from any alternative mediums available to the Shibboleth). The Shibboleth can add spells found in other Shibboleths' spellfiles or spellcaster's spellbooks, provided the spells in question are of a variety normally available to the Shibboleth. (The more traditional spellcasters may use spells found in the files of Shibboleths.)
A set of spellfiles is usually put into a notebook or desktop computer, or a PDA. Occasionally they are put on a secure website to allow access by cell phone or satellite phone. Backup files are a must, and are usually kept in another location (such as a safety deposit box). Hard copy is also used for storage of spellfiles, sometimes bound in spellbooks.

Online Presence (Ex): At 3rd level, when attempting to use a Charisma-based skill such a Bluff, Intimidate, Diplomacy, or Gather Information in an online situation, the Shibboleth adds any Shibboleth levels as a circumstance bonus.

Create Digital Homunculus (Ex): At 4th level, the Shibboleth can create a digital homunculus. Creating a digital homunculus requires appropriate equipment worth 2,500 gp. The materials used are consumed in the creation of the digital homunculus. In addition, the creation of a digital homunculus requires a pint of the Shibboleth's blood. It takes a week to create a digital homunculus. During this time the Shibboleth must labor for 8 hours a day. A character not actively working on the ritual must perform no other activities except eating, sleeping, or talking. If he misses a day, the process fails, and the ritual must begin anew. At the end of the period, the Shibboleth makes a Craft (electronic) skill check (DC 20). A failure indicates loss of the subject (requiring the Shibboleth to begin again) but no other penalty. The Shibboleth may create any number of digital homunculi. However, when a digital homunculi perishes, its death deals 2d10 points of damage to the Shibboleth, so caution is usually the by-word in digital homunculus creation.

Program Spell (Sp): At 5th level, the Shibboleth may insert a spell within a particular analog or digital device, such that by touching a key (or flicking a switch), the spell activates. All variables of the spell are set at the time of casting. Casting a spell takes the normal amount of time; discharging a programmed spell is an attack action.

Shibboleth Abilities (Ex): At 6th level, the Shibboleth gains the following abilities:

- Electronic Empathy: The Shibboleth gains a +2 competence bonus when repairing or disabling electronic devices. This is in addition to any synergy bonuses for related skills.

- Careful Progress: When the Shibboleth attempts to defeat computer security, the administrator is alerted only if the Shibboleth fails his Computer Use check by 10 or more.

At 7th level, the Shibboleth gains the following abilities:

- False Trail: When covering his electronically tracks through the internet, the Shibboleth can lay in a false trail. With a successful DC 25 Computer Use check, the Shibboleth imposes a –5 penalty on any attempt to trace him (as described in the Defend Security function of the Computer Use skill). If the trace fails by 10 or more points, the tracker follows the Shibboleth’s false trail to an innocent internet address. If the trace fails by less than 10 points, the tracker realizes the trail is bogus and gives up.

- Install Backdoor: After successfully breaking into a specific computer system, the Shibboleth can install a “backdoor” to the system. A backdoor is a piece of code that makes it easier for the Shibboleth to break into that particular system in the future. Writing and installing the program requires a Computer Use check (see chart below), but once successfully installed it automatically defeats that systems’ security upon return trips—the Shibboleth no longer needs to make Computer Use checks to enter that system.

Level of Security DC
Minimum 25
Average 30
Exceptional 40
Maximum 45

It is important to keep backdoors hidden from the system administrator, who will always be on the lookout for such invasions. A backdoor automatically allows the Shibboleth entrance to a particular system, but every time he uses it he must make an opposed Computer Use check against the administrator. Failure means the backdoor is discovered and will be deleted before the next time the Shibboleth returns.

At 8th level, the Shibboleth gains the following abilities:

- Online Spell Resistance: The Shibboleth becomes harder to hurt by spells and spell-like abilities sent through email and electronic devices, including the Shibboleth's online spellcasting ability as well as magical items which use electronic components. The Shibboleth gains Spell Resistance equal to 10 + his Shibboleth levels.

- Improved Degradation: The Shibboleth's attempts to alter and degrade existing programming get more insidious. The degradation is installed as normal (as described in the Degrade Programming function of the Computer Use skill). However, unless the Computer Use check to fix the degraded program exceeds the DC by 5, the degradation returns within 6 hours—this happens automatically, the Shibboleth does not have to make a second check.

At 9th level, the Shibboleth gains the following abilities:

- Passfirewall: When the Shibboleth attempts to defeat computer security, the administrator is alerted only if the Shibboleth rolls a 1 on his Computer Use check.

- Walking Database: The Shibboleth gains the supernatural ability to recall vast amounts of information gleaned while traveling through cyberspace. He may substitute his Computer Use skill for any Knowledge skill.

Online Casting (Sp): At 10th level, the Shibboleth can cast spells through electronic devices, including cameras, cell phones, and modems. If the spell requires the caster to be seen, then the target must see the caster, if it requires the caster to be heard, then the target must be able to hear the caster. Range is determined from the caster to the pick-up device (camera, keyboard, etc.) and then from the device to its target. The space between keyboard and monitor, or camera and screen, is not considered. The Shibboleth must be able to see or otherwise be able to determine the location of his target (“person at the keyboard” is a suitable target). Spells cast online are less effective, such that the target gets a +4 circumstance bonus on saving throws.

Last edited by dante58701; 14th May 2007 at 12:49 AM..
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Old 13th May 2007, 12:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hey dante mate!

I hope you don't mind if I hijack this thread a little...?

What sort of Prestige Classes would people like to see in future Immortals Handbook products?

Someone asked a few days ago would I have Prestige Classes for Sidereals or Eternals. I wasn't too sure thats what people were after, but I am interested to hear anyones thoughts.
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Old 13th May 2007, 02:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
Its a kind of magic
 
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Dante, it is much more pleasing on the eye to type it all it using notepad, properly spaced and wrapped in the code tags.

Edit: Class table deleted

To add this to your original post, hit quote, then copy the coded area. Next edit your original post and delete the class table mess you have there and paste the coded stuff. Voila! Nice easy to read coded class table.

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Old 13th May 2007, 10:56 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Omeganian Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
How about a prestige class specifically for slaying gods?
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Old 13th May 2007, 11:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upper_Krust
What sort of Prestige Classes would people like to see in future Immortals Handbook products?
I say again:

Colossus Slayer.
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Old 13th May 2007, 09:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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dante58701 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
How do you do that? I dont know much about computers. Ironic since I love mixing magic with tech.

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Old 13th May 2007, 09:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dante58701
How do you do that? I dont know much about computers.
I believe the way to do it is to put [ code ] at the beginning of what you want within that area as Fru did above and then [ /code ] to end it. [Note: there shouldn't be spaces within the brackets, but I put them there so you could see what to do]

It's not necessarily at an obvious spot, but this page has proved useful for me: Codes
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Old 15th May 2007, 05:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hrm. Portfolios are, in a manner of speaking, the divine PrCs already... that said, a couple of traditional PrCs could be fun anyway. Perhaps an "Ancient" PrC? Something like harnessing your own age for greater power. "Forgotten" could provide a unique progression for beings imprisoned for ages, leaking quintessence as they go, with perhaps interesting ramifications to that process (I'm thinking OotS's Banjhulu here).
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Old 15th May 2007, 08:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well, I haven't seen a very good Chronomancer class. They are certainly out there, but most seem either lacking in style/effectiveness or are more broken than words can describe.

I definitely like the "ancient" class idea. It could be really cool if it had an interesting, workable mechanic.
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Old 15th May 2007, 09:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I agree with both the chronmancer class and the god slayer class would be good. I belive that at one point you were planning prestige classes for some of the god in ascension but decided aganst it for time and space issues, now that gods and monsters is a seperate book that might hold a place to include them? A prestige class based around each of the First ones would be good. How about for an eternal level of prestige class one based around world building and creating life? Or one that tries to emulate the supreme being?
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Old 15th May 2007, 10:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hey everyone!

Thanks for the ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axolotl
I agree with both the chronmancer class and the god slayer class would be good.
I have a Chronomancer class planned. I like the idea of a God-slayer class too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axolotl
I belive that at one point you were planning prestige classes for some of the god in ascension but decided aganst it for time and space issues, now that gods and monsters is a seperate book that might hold a place to include them?
The Prestige Classes (and Organisations) will be in the Chronicle book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axolotl
A prestige class based around each of the First ones would be good.
Dimensional classes...that fits in with Chronomancer I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axolotl
How about for an eternal level of prestige class one based around world building and creating life? Or one that tries to emulate the supreme being?
I'll give it some thought.
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Old 16th May 2007, 08:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltheb Silverfrond
Well, I haven't seen a very good Chronomancer class. They are certainly out there, but most seem either lacking in style/effectiveness or are more broken than words can describe.
The real problem with making a Chronomancer (or for that matter, anything related to time) is that different DMs classify time-based powers differently, and think of time differently. For example, some might allow PCs to go into the past and create a paradox which destroys reality (the quest could presumably be set up around such a thing, a la Back to the Future). Others would disallow time travel to the past for exactly the same reason; to them, paradox can't happen and the only way for the universe to stop it is to disallow travel into the past (scientists who advocate this idea for real-world physics call this the "Chronology Protection Conjecture.")

To those in the second category, any power of a Chronomancer which allows any sort of meddling with the past is immediately "broken." To the first group, a Chronomancer class that doesn't have such a power is lacking something, and probably worthless.

I'm in a third category of time-travel theorists myself, usually called the "parallel worlds theory-" which states that at any given point in time, all possible outcomes actually do occur, but essentially separated into their own timelines which never influence each other again (except perhaps through weird sorts of quantum interference depending on precisely how you interpret quantum mechanics). With this theory, the whole notion of paradox becomes irrelevant, because anything you do in the past to change the future just creates a new timeline for you to follow and has absolutely no effect on the one you came from (which, since you thought of the action as a "change," obviously didn't include it in the timeline you originated in).

With this theory, Chronomancers likely not only have the power to travel to the past and change things, but might actually have powers to travel between parallel universes- cross the second time dimension, if you will. People in the first two categories would probably not only consider this broken, they'd probably fail to even understand why a "time mage" even has some of the powers ascribed to it by the third-category theorist.
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Old 18th May 2007, 08:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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dante58701 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
I would have to ascribe to the third theory as well. It's far more realistic. There does exist a chronomancy series that involves that very theory. You can find it online somewhere. Im gonna go look for the links.

Here's my favorite one.

http://dragen-nibe.dk/media/rpg/netbook_time_v1.pdf

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Old 29th May 2007, 09:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Hey guys!

Any thoughts regarding the Revised Fighter Class I posted yesterday on the website?

http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon6a.htm

Good? Bad? Ugly?
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Old 30th May 2007, 12:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Honestly it seems worse than the regular fighter. It is a one-trick (or weapon category) pony. The fighter needs 4 skill points/level and perhaps exclusive (or better access) to meta-martial maneuvers to make it more distinct & interesting.
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Old 30th May 2007, 02:13 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Xzoltar Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Usally I love the stuff you make, but this time for the Fighter, I dont like it. Sure its fun it it harder and more often, but it lack diversity, every Fighter are the same now except maybe their starting weapon. I will try to playtest it in my next games for a couple of thugs that I will throw at my party, so we'll see. I will let them use Meta-martial maneuver like in Immortal Handbook, so that they dont just do the same thing again and again...

Less option is not fun at all and it seem to go against what you usally design...
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Old 30th May 2007, 06:50 AM   #17 (permalink)
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No! Bad designer, bad! Customization is the only reason people ever took Fighter levels, and, speaking from a munchkin PoV, the Weapon Focus chain sucks out loud. A far cry from buffing the class, you've ensured nobody will ever take it. By the way, Eclectic Strike? Worthless. Yeah, your feats will apply, but the random crap you pick up is still nonmagical, and therefore, just that: crap.

The "random" feats aren't a drawback, they're the class's lifeblood. Give the new stuff too, but keep the feat every level.

And what the hell do you have against iterative attacks?! They're the only advantage non-casters have!

Seriously, Krusty, it seems like you're catering to the mentally challenged gamer, here. Anyone who can't pick a few more feats, or remember to -5 with every attack after the first is going to be lost in high to Epic level anyway, so don't worry about them, and just make the class worth playing.

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Old 30th May 2007, 08:04 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Well, I can't say I didn't like the class; I would consider playing one over a regular fighter, just to give it a whirl. Though I really found this class lacking in coolness. (a bit more so than with the PH fighter)

I do think the game itself could use a bit more simplicity; feat packages work pretty well to do that at high levels. But some classes are ONLY playable if they have complex combinations of options available. Example: Wizard - If I said All Wizard have is an attack spell that does 4 damage/level, and a defensive spell that adds +1 deflection bonus/2 levels, wizard would look really dry too. Who would play them? Not me. Now barbarian is one of those classes that is really simple and class design and play strategy: Step 1 - Get angry. Step 2 - Kill. Step 3 - If survivors remain, return to Step 2.

That said, I wouldn't put your fighter version as better or worse than a PH fighter and would allow a player to use either one, but I myself would lean to the basic fighter because of the options available. Don't need a weapon specialist? No problem! I'll make a Trip/Disarm/Expertise Fiend.
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Old 30th May 2007, 02:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Pssthpok Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
I think the fighter class is fine the way it is, though I think some of the abilities you put in your version would make great high-level feats.
I also think that losing iterative attacks could be very problematic, even if it does simplify things. I'd take a 20/15/10/5 over a 5/5/5/5 any day of the week, as the former makes sense and the latter is nonsense, underpowered, and sorta silly. If the metamartial move was reworded to allow for this, then I'd support removing 'staple' iteratives, such as:

Blitz Attack: You may make more than one attack per round. Each additional attack suffers a cumulative -5 attack penalty. You may make as many attacks as you'd like, provided no attack is made with an attack penalty equal to or greater than your Base Attack.
eg. So, if you have a Base Attack of +17, you could make one standard attack, one at +12 (-5), one at +7 (-10), and one at +2 (-15), but no more.

Which I understand is basically the same thing as the RAW, but it's better for the habit and survival of the players; removal of the EAB rules in conjunction with the above metamartial move abolishes the Wizard 20/Fighter 20 vs. Fighter 20/Wizard 20 dilemma... which is a good thing. Removing the ability to make more than one high-mod attack per round will only serve to drag out combat, since fighters will be making fewer attacks per round, even if they auto-confirm and use your Multiplier feats.
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Old 30th May 2007, 03:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the feedback on this guys!

Hey mercucio mate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercucio
Honestly it seems worse than the regular fighter. It is a one-trick (or weapon category) pony. The fighter needs 4 skill points/level and perhaps exclusive (or better access) to meta-martial maneuvers to make it more distinct & interesting.
Well obviously I was building it with the Metamartial Maneouvres in mind.

As for Skills, you are getting one skill point to every skill each level. But I see now that the original skill point method is possibly a better fit for working out cross class skills.
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