Hiya people! Sorry if this isn't where it's meant to go, just thought it'd be nice to check this with all of you. Not to mention I think you guys should get first look at it because you're all awesome! It also seems to fit since it's epic related, and I used a couple of things from the epic bestiary, but if not, sorry.
As some of you may know, I'm the creator of a little something called the apocalypse series. Those of you who do not know what it is, it's at The Apocolypse series (uber powered, just for moans) - Wizards Community. Basically, it is a series of classes made to be mainly silly and pretty overpowered. However, I decided to make an effective Apocalypse Dragon, and well, I've never made an actual dragon before, only about everything else. So far I've made a Category so there can be multiple types. Anyways, I'd appreciate feedback on what you think:
Apocalypse Dragons
Apocalyptic Scales: All stats (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) are applied to AC against all attacks (no matter the circumstances).
Apocalyptic Save: All stats (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) are applied to all saves (Fort, Ref, and Will).
Apocalyptic Strike: All stats (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) are applied onto all attacks and damage dealt.
Damage Reduction: Some can be pierced by different sources, others can't.
Deathly Presence: Anyone failing their save is utterly destroyed. Creatures who succeed are frightened, Must be immune to both fear and death effects to avoid this ability.
Energy Absorption: Apocalypse Dragons are generally healed by two types of energy damage.
Energy Reflection: Apocalypse Dragons generally reflect two types of energy back at the original attacker.
Hit Dice: changed to d1000's!
Immunities: Ability Damage/Drain, Death Effects, Disease, Energy Drain, Exhaustion, Fatigue, Mind affecting effects, negative energy, paralysis, petrification, poison, polymorph, sleep
Omnipotent: Apocalypse Dragons know all skills and have max ranks in them.
Spellcasting: Apocalypse Dragons can generally cast as a level 50 spellcaster of any class. Can even use epic spells.
Spell resistance: Most have fairly high spell resistances, some even have immunity.
Supreme Power: All Apocalypse Dragons will have their stats doubled along with the other changes per two age categories.
True Dragon!: Apocalypse Dragon's stats increase per age category (discounting supreme power) is generally in the are of 750 to 2000 (in extreme cases). All non-breath attacks (unless otherwise stated) deal doom damage instead of normal damage. Apocalypse Dragon's also typically have Fast Healing, or in rare cases, regeneration.
I'm pretty sure I messed up in a few places. I also know that it's stats are going to be insanely high. Thanks for any comments!
Last edited by Geraturatu; 21st February 2009 at 01:08 AM..
Reason: Just realized there was a mistake on an ability
Hiya people! Sorry if this isn't where it's meant to go, just thought it'd be nice to check this with all of you. Not to mention I think you guys should get first look at it because you're all awesome! It also seems to fit since it's epic related, and I used a couple of things from the epic bestiary, but if not, sorry.
Anywhere is fine.
Quote:
As some of you may know, I'm the creator of a little something called the apocalypse series. Those of you who do not know what it is, it's at The Apocolypse series (uber powered, just for moans) - Wizards Community. Basically, it is a series of classes made to be mainly silly and pretty overpowered. However, I decided to make an effective Apocalypse Dragon, and well, I've never made an actual dragon before, only about everything else. So far I've made a Category so there can be multiple types. Anyways, I'd appreciate feedback on what you think:
Some fun stuff there, you should show that to paradox42.
Totally loved the Warhammer 'Chaos Warrior' art.
Quote:
Apocalypse Dragons
*SNIP*!
I think the main problem is going to be statting one out, its going to take you about a week.
You know the irony here is that I am actually planning an Apocalypse Dragon for the 4E Gods & Monsters: Astral Plane..although it will be in the second pdf, not the first.
Thanks UK, haven't been able to get on recently due to a friend that kept using my computer (grumble). It's certainly a fun thread to make.
I was hoping for some ideas on the current abilities/abilities I could add. Though if the only problem is stating it out, I suppose it's good enough and I should get working on it immediately (starts looking busy again).
If I forgot to say it before, I'll say it now: It's nice to see everyone again!
Speaking of dragons; U_K, did you manage to find proper stats for what I sent you?
__________________ What comes beyond the Akalich?
Black light which burns away the shadow.
What is beyond the great Cogent?
A mind which makes the stars go mad.
When Amilictli goes beyond,
The storm is better known as sunspot.
And when the Odium evolves,
You'll see a galaxy in green.
Speaking of dragons; U_K, did you manage to find proper stats for what I sent you?
Well my parting comments were a hypothetical 'now all we need...etc.' rather than a 'let me go and rustle up some stats' type comment.
That said, I am sort of revising the dragons for 4th Edition....and at a glance it looks like I may need another category of dragons after Muhlatimic (Maybe Eschatolic). Of course 4E handles these things far easier.
I think that for 3E/3.5E Muhlatimic Dragons are better left undisturbed. The Hit Dice alone is just going to be enough to give a designer nightmares.
The Hit Dice alone is just going to be enough to give a designer nightmares.
I can believe that.
__________________ What comes beyond the Akalich?
Black light which burns away the shadow.
What is beyond the great Cogent?
A mind which makes the stars go mad.
When Amilictli goes beyond,
The storm is better known as sunspot.
And when the Odium evolves,
You'll see a galaxy in green.
Howdy Omeganian dude!
at a glance it looks like I may need another category of dragons after Muhlatimic (Maybe Eschatolic).
I think it might be more logical to put the category below the Muhlats. I mean, if the Nehashimic dragons are a Demiurge's tapeworms, and the Muhlats are the nerves of Akasha, there should be something corresponding to the levels between them - maybe the Supreme Being's antibodies.
__________________ What comes beyond the Akalich?
Black light which burns away the shadow.
What is beyond the great Cogent?
A mind which makes the stars go mad.
When Amilictli goes beyond,
The storm is better known as sunspot.
And when the Odium evolves,
You'll see a galaxy in green.
It will probably be forever and a day before I get anything really workable prepared in regards to it, but I'm going to try to work out at least two or three examples of Eschatolic Dragons for use in my own campaigns (since, personally, about the closest I can come to the power threshold of some of those draconid characters is with 171 times great wyrm quasar, singularity, and nexus dragons, and I was actually trying to balance the character concepts against advanced Pentad, or higher, Aeons.) I think I'll work on all three Eschatolic Dragons concurrently, but put most of the effort on the Metuselic Dragons (also known as the Empyrean Dragons), with the Semaic (Lineage) Dragons and the Akatao (Cynosure) Dragons being somewhat on the back burner.
Might even get into working just the smallest bit on the Muhlatimic Dragons, if only to work on trying to sort out Aeonic from Omnific abilities - an idea that I had which essentially amounts to the fact that there needs to be another tier between Transcendental and Omnific abilities, given the relative difference of power between some of the Omnific powers. Some of them are quite suitable for Aeonic status, like Neutronium body, which would take the 200 divine abilities slot, with Omnific abilities getting kicked up to 1200 divine abilities.
Ah, well... off I go...
Last edited by DamienWilacoth; 7th November 2009 at 10:13 AM..
It will probably be forever and a day before I get anything really workable prepared in regards to it, but I'm going to try to work out at least two or three examples of Eschatolic Dragons for use in my own campaigns (since, personally, about the closest I can come to the power threshold of some of those draconid characters is with 171 times great wyrm quasar, singularity, and nexus dragons, and I was actually trying to balance the character concepts against advanced Pentad, or higher, Aeons.) I think I'll work on all three Eschatolic Dragons concurrently, but put most of the effort on the Metuselic Dragons (also known as the Empyrean Dragons), with the Semaic (Lineage) Dragons and the Akatao (Cynosure) Dragons being somewhat on the back burner.
Cool. Although are all those new categories or simply types of existing dragons, I am assuming the former - which makes me curious where they fit in?
As regards 4E Dragons I recently worked out the sizes and Hit Dice. The largest will be...
Younger ages could see large growth spurts at the higher age categories.
Quote:
Might even get into working just the smallest bit on the Muhlatimic Dragons, if only to work on trying to sort out Aeonic from Omnific abilities - an idea that I had which essentially amounts to the fact that there needs to be another tier between Transcendental and Omnific abilities, given the relative difference of power between some of the Omnific powers. Some of them are quite suitable for Aeonic status, like Neutronium body, which would take the 200 divine abilities slot, with Omnific abilities getting kicked up to 1200 divine abilities.
I think you are always going to have a big jump when you go from anything to Infinite.
Younger ages could see large growth spurts at the higher age categories.
I find that the Immortal's Handbook does exceedingly well for most of my cosmology, but some of it does require a little tweaking. I have practically no knowledge of 4th edition, and having talked to a few people who've played in its format, am probably just as glad - I'll work a little longer and crunch a few more numbers to work out exactly what I need the creature to do.
I'm more going with Omeganian, with Eschatolic Dragons ranking below Muhlatimic Dragons - although, in this case, using one for the other might be as simple as changing the names. Really, the tier that I'm working on I just called the Aeonic Dragons, for purposes of simplicity. The different types of dragons are pretty new, in my opinion. Again, I'm borrowing Omeganian's idea that the Aeonic dragons are sort of the equivalent of the Supreme Being's antibodies... well, most of them, anyway, although all of them are the equivalent of Time Lords. At wyrmling, I'm thinking that they are around macro-tiny.
The Metuselic Dragon (Empyrean Dragon) is an inhabitant of Mazaloth - and in some ways, an embodiment of it. Of all the Eschatolic Dragons, they are the only ones associated with an earthly element: fire. Their alignments are usually Lawful Neutral.
The Semaic Dragons (Lineage Dragons) are perhaps the most numerous of all Aeonic Dragons, if only for the fact that they possess the unique ability to breed true with any creature whatsoever. They are the most earthy and material of the Aeonic Dragons and for good reason - they are near constantly in disguise, blended among the peoples of whatever plane they happen to inhabit. There is usually one stationed among each Multiverse, serving as an anonymous guard against threats of the highest order. Semaic dragons hold power over all three of the domains of their lesser, nehaschimic kin - nexi, singularities, and quasars. It is somewhat speculated that if a nehaschimic dragons lived to an exceedingly old age - enough to reach ten times great wyrm - that they might somehow evolve into a Semaic dragon. Their alignments are usually Chaotic Good.
The Akatao Dragons (Cynosure Dragons) are among the most malicious and dangerous beings in the kosmos. They crave the superdense 'flesh' of still living universes and as such, time lords are their favorite prey. Semaic dragons and Akatao dragons often (in Aeonic terms) come into conflict. Their alignments are usually Neutral Evil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upper_Krust
I think you are always going to have a big jump when you go from anything to Infinite.
For some things, I'm alright with the true Infinite on stats. In particular, my universe supports a class of beings known as the True Ascended, who have the power to make or unmake entire realities with a thought, and their 'gods.' For those type of beings, Infinite power is just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upper_Krust
Good luck.
Thanks.
Last edited by DamienWilacoth; 7th November 2009 at 11:50 PM..
Without intruding on the discussion at hand at all, I'll just note in passing that I have introduced the term "Muhlatimic Dragons" in my game specifically as the name given to a breed of dragon the PCs "designed" for a "race" of beings that can create what I called "Starbeasts" in game- creatures which are themselves the size of entire planets. In other words, the Muhlatimic Dragons of my game are dragons which are planet-sized, and which the PCs not only know about but actually helped to design. They have one that orbits within a planetary system they helped create and populate, which they're hoping to keep in-system as a guardian and helper. They haven't actually talked to it much as yet.
__________________ "I am a vampiric half-dragon half-troll lycanthropic fiendish snail! Tremble at my illogical glory!" -The Tongue is Mightier Than the Sword, OotS, Dragon #345
"Come to the Far Realmy side...we have pseudonatural cookies..." - Tlin, Alienoid Warlock, during a game session in March 2007
Without intruding on the discussion at hand at all, I'll just note in passing that I have introduced the term "Muhlatimic Dragons" in my game specifically as the name given to a breed of dragon the PCs "designed" for a "race" of beings that can create what I called "Starbeasts" in game- creatures which are themselves the size of entire planets. In other words, the Muhlatimic Dragons of my game are dragons which are planet-sized, and which the PCs not only know about but actually helped to design. They have one that orbits within a planetary system they helped create and populate, which they're hoping to keep in-system as a guardian and helper. They haven't actually talked to it much as yet.
Neheschimic dragon for that breed or simply a higher breed classification?
Have started working on the Eschatolic Dragons, in particular, the Metuselic Dragons... these guys are absolute beasts. They should hopefully have no problem keeping a party of Time Lords busy - High Lords, at higher age categories. I'm in the middle of trying to prep a sample, but the primary attributes are almost ready to be integrated. Almost ironically enough, the hardest part about designing them is coming up with Transcendental abilities that are stackable for their Bonus Transcendental Ability... ability. The only one in the Immortal's Handbook that really lends itself to that type of thing is Multidimensional.
Neheschimic dragon for that breed or simply a higher breed classification?
Have started working on the Eschatolic Dragons, in particular, the Metuselic Dragons... these guys are absolute beasts. They should hopefully have no problem keeping a party of Time Lords busy - High Lords, at higher age categories. I'm in the middle of trying to prep a sample, but the primary attributes are almost ready to be integrated. Almost ironically enough, the hardest part about designing them is coming up with Transcendental abilities that are stackable for their Bonus Transcendental Ability... ability. The only one in the Immortal's Handbook that really lends itself to that type of thing is Multidimensional.
Any ideas?
Oh, the Muhlatimic Dragons in my game aren't Nehaschimic. They're just Starbeasts (i.e. planet-sized critters) which happen to be Dragons. And so far there's only the one breed of them, and only one example of the breed actually exists as yet (though more are being created). My PC party has fought and defeated (quite soundly) Nexus Dragons of every age category, and could probably fight and defeat the other two (Quasar and Singularity) as well once I make stats for them. Muhlatimic Dragons are a breed they have designed at the cellular level, being created for them by a race of beings they know as "Makers" some of whom are large enough to create planet-sized creatures.
That's my game. The games of other DMs will very likely be radically different. For your Eschatolic Dragons, I'd note that even though you only have one direct example of a stackable Transcendental ability, that doesn't preclude you making one of your own. Witness how I made a Trans ability for myself out of five Cosmic abilities when I made the Firmament Dragon- if you can come up with a Trans ability that's stackable, besides Multidimensional, then go for it. Just be sure you post it in the Custom Abilities thread so the rest of us can use it!
__________________ "I am a vampiric half-dragon half-troll lycanthropic fiendish snail! Tremble at my illogical glory!" -The Tongue is Mightier Than the Sword, OotS, Dragon #345
"Come to the Far Realmy side...we have pseudonatural cookies..." - Tlin, Alienoid Warlock, during a game session in March 2007
Based on the fact that Eschatolic Dragons are more suited to being opponents of Time Lords, I'm giving them an Aeonic ability called 'Aeonic Draconic Potential.' Essentially, this allows them to progress through ten virtual age categories before they advance into the next 'actual' age category. As Eschatolic dragons gain an age category every 48 hit dice, that would mean that one of their kind would not advance into a Very Young status until they were at around 1980 hit dice.
Just as a quick note, I intended the Muhlatimic Dragons to be in the Omnific range. It's the Transcendental class which is missing.
__________________ What comes beyond the Akalich?
Black light which burns away the shadow.
What is beyond the great Cogent?
A mind which makes the stars go mad.
When Amilictli goes beyond,
The storm is better known as sunspot.
And when the Odium evolves,
You'll see a galaxy in green.
Just as a quick note, I intended the Muhlatimic Dragons to be in the Omnific range. It's the Transcendental class which is missing.
That's pretty much what I'm working on, with Eschatolic Dragons skirting the border between Transcendental and Aeonic abilities, and Muhlatimic Dragons working between Aeonic and Omnific abilities. Thus, if Eschatolic Dragons can possibly challenge the entire lower range of Time Lords, then Muhlatimic Dragons should be a firm match for the higher range, and possibly even a threat to the Supreme Being in their greater age categories.
The dragons would be (listed both alphabetically and in the new order I am considering):
Eschatolic - average level of Ancient = 51, Dragons: Apocalypse/Doomsday, Dream?, Iwis? (new name?), Judgement?, Kalpa? (new name?),
Nehaschimic - average level of Ancient = 59, Dragons: Black Hole, Nexus, Quasar
Muhlatimic - average level of Ancient = 67, Dragons: Brane, Mirror?
The problem with Solar System sized is that at any respectable density, such a body is a black hole by definition (less than a billion km across for water). Hence the double composition of my Fate Dragons' eggshell (and their bodies, actually) - mass and negative mass which cancel each other out. Natural superdense matter of planetary volume would not have held.
__________________ What comes beyond the Akalich?
Black light which burns away the shadow.
What is beyond the great Cogent?
A mind which makes the stars go mad.
When Amilictli goes beyond,
The storm is better known as sunspot.
And when the Odium evolves,
You'll see a galaxy in green.
The problem with Solar System sized is that at any respectable density, such a body is a black hole by definition (less than a billion km across for water). Hence the double composition of my Fate Dragons' eggshell (and their bodies, actually) - mass and negative mass which cancel each other out. Natural superdense matter of planetary volume would not have held.
It could be gaseous in nature...as per a nebula. Or it might be hollow with the interior mass some sort of pocket dimension.
Dragons also have natural "supernatural" powers built into their deepest being, so nothing says they can't have antigravity embedded in their makeup so as to create shapes of solid material that should collapse under their own weight (but persistently refuse to do so).
So the current thinking, based on dragon breed names, would be Epic->Cosmic->Eschatolic->Nehaschimic->Muhlatimic? I'm gratified to see the "promotion" of the Brane/Firmament Dragon, but what's the "Mirror" breed at that level?
__________________ "I am a vampiric half-dragon half-troll lycanthropic fiendish snail! Tremble at my illogical glory!" -The Tongue is Mightier Than the Sword, OotS, Dragon #345
"Come to the Far Realmy side...we have pseudonatural cookies..." - Tlin, Alienoid Warlock, during a game session in March 2007
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