Creating Pantheons

[Ace32]

Howdy U_K,

Considering all the shake-ups with the product lineup now that you're making the transition to 4e, what will become of your plans to present pantheon creation rules? Will they appear in Godsend or will they be delayed until after the 4e books have begun rolling out?

If they aren't on the docket for a while, any tips for creating well balanced pantheons? What about any guidance on how pantheons should coexist under your system?

Thanks!

[Upper_Krust]

Originally Posted by Ace32

Howdy U_K,

Hey there Ace!

Considering all the shake-ups with the product lineup now that you're making the transition to 4e, what will become of your plans to present pantheon creation rules? Will they appear in Godsend or will they be delayed until after the 4e books have begun rolling out?

I have none in Godsend at the moment, but I really should put some in there. I do have a lot of notes on the matter, so it should just be a matter of copying them up.

I have also been working on a new idea wherein each pantheon would be a tangible thing and have a 'Level' in tandem with a 'Classification' (Like Demigod, Greater God and so forth, but for Pantheons).

Of course one 'problem' with that approach is that all pantheons are not created equal. Which would force it into a sub-pantheon or some sort of pantheon conglomorate for protection.

The benefit of this system is that you can tailor it to specific period of history so for instance during the height of the Roman Empire, their Pantheon would have been very powerful because of the population of the Empire.

Its also possible to tailor galactic pantheons and so forth. However, I am still in the process of balancing these nuances and I am not sure if this will end up in Godsend. Probably in some 4E Immortals Index book (should such ever surface).

If they aren't on the docket for a while, any tips for creating well balanced pantheons?

For 3E Quick Pantheon Creation rules I suggest:

Each Pantheon starts with a Factor of 72
Each Greater God is worth 8
Each Intermediate God is worth 4
Each Lesser God is worth 2
Each Demigod is worth 1
Quasi-deities and Hero-deities not a factor.

Typical Pantheon breakdown. e.g. Norse Pantheon
1 Greater God = 8
9 Intermediate Gods (one of each Alignment) = 36
9 Lesser Gods (one of each Alignment) = 18
10 Demigods = 10

Other possibilities
9 Greater Gods = 72

18 Intermediate Gods = 72

36 Lesser Gods = 72

72 Demigods = 72

Hindu Pantheon
3 Greater God = 24
7 Intermediate Gods = 28
9 Lesser Gods = 18
2 Demigods = 2

Abyss
0 Greater Gods
0 Intermediate Gods
6 Lesser Gods = 12
60 Demigods = 60

What about any guidance on how pantheons should coexist under your system?

The Pantheon Levelling system would have sorted that out mathematically. Prior to that I would have made all pantheons roughly equal.

Thanks!

Hope the above at leats gives you a headstart.

[Alzrius]

I really hope you do get those notes worked up and added to Godsend, U_K. That sounds like it's less math-heavy than other aspects of 3.5, and it's one of those aspects of creating a setting for divine/immortal play.

I also hope you keep in the rules regarding "slave pantheons" and such that you mentioned a while back. Those (and the stuff regarding galactic pantheons) sound incredibly cool.

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Originally Posted by Alzrius

I really hope you do get those notes worked up and added to Godsend, U_K. That sounds like it's less math-heavy than other aspects of 3.5, and it's one of those aspects of creating a setting for divine/immortal play.

I will - although they are not in there yet, in fact there are a few things still missing.

I also hope you keep in the rules regarding "slave pantheons" and such that you mentioned a while back. Those (and the stuff regarding galactic pantheons) sound incredibly cool.

I am not sure if they will make it into Godsend but we'll see. Balancing it all will require some heavy duty cerebral contemplation as it is. But then again one moment of inspiration and I could have that cracked.

[Upper_Krust]

Last night in work (during the breaks) I did some brainstorming on the pantheon problem and made a few discoveries which unfortunately seem to complicate things a tad further.

Also retrofitting the pantheon rules to 3.5 may not be possible without an overhaul of the entire Worship Point System in Ascension - which is another reason why these particular rules may not end up in Godsend.

In effect, I have been trying to balance the hypothetical number of sentients in a given area (be it city, country, planet, galaxy, universe, or whatever) to the different Divine Ranks/Tiers. Then parallel that with the XP/QP difference (which in 4E is roughly x2.5 per 5 levels).

So every 10 level jump is x6.25 XP (approx.) which roughly parallels the Solo monster's 9 Level gap being an effective x5 power jump.

e.g. So a 33rd-level solo lesser god (Orcus) is equal to x6.25 27th-level Elite quasi-deities (Balor's).

However, the law of diminshing returns suggests that the power difference is the square of the XP difference...because as Orcus starts picking off Balor's (to use that example), the power of the Balor group diminishes. Not to mention that that math makes it more difficult for Balor's to land hits on Orcus.

ie. Therefore a character 5 levels higher is roughly the same as 6.25 characters 5 levels lower.

e.g. A 33rd-level solo lesser god (Orcus) is equal to x39 Balor's.

Which may or may not seem more appropos in the grand scheme of things.

All that is fine and dandy so far, and in fact makes a key component in my new army rules.

So on the one hand the math tells us that a +10 level jump is 6.25 times better, while the law of diminshing returns tells us that its 39 times better.

So the basic framework is telling me that Zeus (Solo 40) is equal to:

x6 Vecna's or Tiamat's
x39 Ancient Red Dragon's or Tarrasque's
x244 Primordial Hydra's or Naga's
x1525 Death Titan's
x9536 Nightwalker's
etc.

My initial idea is that the number of worshippers would increase threefold each level.

1, 3, 10, 33, 100, 333, 1000, 3333, 10000, 33333, 100000 etc.

333...+5 Levels
100,000...+10 levels
33,300,000...+15 levels
10 billion...+20 levels...planetary levels
33 trillion...+25 levels
10 quodrillion...+30 levels...galactic levels
3 quintillion...+35 levels
1 sextillion...+40 levels
333 sextillion...+45 levels
100 septillion...+50 levels...universal levels

I'll post more on this later. Busy with stuff.