Its pretty apparent that my quagmire pacing is not speeding up. So I am considering (what was suggested a few months ago here) that I take on several additional writers in the renewed effort to actually make some headway towards the 40 or so books I have planned.
My idea at this juncture is to take on three additional writers; divide up the workload roughly 25% each and go for it. Any writer will get an equal share of the pdf/book profits from any sale, which would be 10% based on a 50% art budget, 10% design budget and 40% writing budget. You ain't gonna get rich doing this so its basically got to be a labour of love.
I'm offering this here first, because I want writers primarily interested in Epic Tier (and higher) 4E, but I'll probably take this offer to Dicefreaks, the Main Forum here and likely rpg.net to fill the vacancies.
You would be working to a design brief thats perhaps 67% my ideas and 33% left to your own invention, from a planning/execution standpoint I mean.
The four series you would be working on (assuming we get that far) would be:
- Immortals Handbook (Rules for Level 31+ 4E D&D)
- Epic Bestiaries (Monsters of Levels 21+ )
- Immortals Index (World Mythologies)
- Epic Adventures (Delves for the Epic and eventually higher Tiers)
1. Knowledge of (preferably working knowledge) of 4E is essential.
2. Writing ability (preferably past demonstrated though not necessarily published) will be preferred.
3. Interest in Epic and/or Immortal gaming, as well as mythology is certainly a bonus.
I'll use this thread to discuss the idea itself or details of any of the above. Anyone interested can email me:
Grr...why couldn't you have done this back in 3.X? I would've done anything that needed doing, stats, flavor, editting, whatever.
There's nothing like the SRD for 4E, is there? I don't have the money for the books at all, and none of my friends have them either. I'd love to help, though. I have tons of time to work on things (Like I said before, 10 Ascension First Ones completely statted in one weekend.)
I just...don't know the first thing about 4E.
Sorry, U_K. I'd really love to help.
If/When you do conversions back to 3.5, I'd be all on board though.
Edit: I suppose it wasn't apparent, I would've done your 3.5 projects for free, gladly. Just seeing more of your material would have been worth it for me. Oh, well, though. I can always make up my own. (Or buy your 4E PDFs and convert what I like myself).
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Last edited by Belzamus; 23rd October 2009 at 03:31 AM..
I have to agree with Belzamus in wishing you had this idea for the 3.X era. It's been a personal dream of mine to write gaming material, especially material for a sourcebook that I have thoroughly enjoyed.
I don't want to start a 3e vs 4e discussion as it has been played out ad nauseum. I understand the designing is easier for 4e and can see the benefits there. However I've only played 4e and not run it and I have been disappointed so far. Again that's a personal preference.
Is there ANY chance of any 3.X material we could help with? Does it HAVE to be for 4e? Maybe dual statted sourcebooks?
I've enjoyed your ideas for epic/immortal gaming. My gaming group which I run has adopted the 3.5 Ascension rules. I'm also a lover of mythology.
I don't know how much I could help with the 4e but if you do decide to include any 3.5 material, I'm in. Sign me up.
Oh my, very tempting! Have to think about it first of course, as it requires a serious commitment. Another thing is that I don't really have something "past demonstrated" at all. I write quite much, but most are hand-written notes for my campaigns, short write-ups on my laptop or changed and newly created monsters in the fantastic Monster Builder from WotC.
Nothing like a completely written adventure or dozen of pages with NPCs, Monsters, Items etc which could be handed over to you.
Anyway, will definitely think about it. I did a lot of Immortal work a few years back in the 3.5 days and am a big fan of 4th edition and especially the epic tier. So, if you should find not enough, professional, helpers, give me a call and we can discuss this further
Anyway, glad something happens and good luck with the search UK!
Grr...why couldn't you have done this back in 3.X?
I didn't really think I needed it back then...though I probably did.
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I would've done anything that needed doing, stats, flavor, editting, whatever.
There's nothing like the SRD for 4E, is there? I don't have the money for the books at all, and none of my friends have them either. I'd love to help, though. I have tons of time to work on things (Like I said before, 10 Ascension First Ones completely statted in one weekend.)
I just...don't know the first thing about 4E.
Sorry, U_K. I'd really love to help.
If/When you do conversions back to 3.5, I'd be all on board though.
Well I can get round a lot of things...since I'm the boss, but I think a working knowledge of 4E is essential, so I don't see a way around that.
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Edit: I suppose it wasn't apparent, I would've done your 3.5 projects for free, gladly. Just seeing more of your material would have been worth it for me.
I don't think I would accept people working for me for free. I certainly don't want to make money (regardless if even a little money) on the backs of other people.
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Oh, well, though. I can always make up my own. (Or buy your 4E PDFs and convert what I like myself).
I have to agree with Belzamus in wishing you had this idea for the 3.X era. It's been a personal dream of mine to write gaming material, especially material for a sourcebook that I have thoroughly enjoyed.
I appreciate the love. I just don't want to see thousands of ideas go to waste because I don't have enough or spend enough time working on the books.
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I don't want to start a 3e vs 4e discussion as it has been played out ad nauseum. I understand the designing is easier for 4e and can see the benefits there.
I think my distaste of 3E is well documented so no point going into that now.
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However I've only played 4e and not run it and I have been disappointed so far. Again that's a personal preference.
Sorry to hear that. I think some people, especially those well versed in 3E will be wary of change. I know my friend S'mon was totally against it, didn't like even reading the Players Handbook. I kept harping on at him about it, the design is brilliant I kept telling him. I think he played one game and still wasn't convinced. But he DMed a game and has now gone on to really enjoy it. I'll give him a message and see if he will come over and say what changed his mind, I don't want to put words in his mouth.
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Is there ANY chance of any 3.X material we could help with? Does it HAVE to be for 4e? Maybe dual statted sourcebooks?
I've enjoyed your ideas for epic/immortal gaming. My gaming group which I run has adopted the 3.5 Ascension rules. I'm also a lover of mythology.
I don't know how much I could help with the 4e but if you do decide to include any 3.5 material, I'm in. Sign me up.
It might be something that will happen eventually, but not until there are at least finished 4E books to work from.
Oh my, very tempting! Have to think about it first of course, as it requires a serious commitment.
Well given that I am juggling a 30+ hour "part-time" job, its possibly not as serious as you might think.
I have been going over a number of the book outlines and quite a few of them are less than 50 pages each. So that would mean each writer would only have about 8-12 pages to complete per book.
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Another thing is that I don't really have something "past demonstrated" at all. I write quite much, but most are hand-written notes for my campaigns, short write-ups on my laptop or changed and newly created monsters in the fantastic Monster Builder from WotC.
I have never considered myself even a good writer, just about adequate is where I rate myself in that regard.
...as a designer thats another story.
...and I'll still be in charge of the design for the book.
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Nothing like a completely written adventure or dozen of pages with NPCs, Monsters, Items etc which could be handed over to you.
In such cases I could always give you a test, say 4 pages of material based on a bunch of monsters I suggest/outline.
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Anyway, will definitely think about it. I did a lot of Immortal work a few years back in the 3.5 days and am a big fan of 4th edition and especially the epic tier. So, if you should find not enough, professional, helpers, give me a call and we can discuss this further
Okay.
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Anyway, glad something happens and good luck with the search UK!
I would love to help if there is anything I can do.
I have played 4e, but not much, and not at Epic levels. I understand the mechanics, though.
I love making monsters - I find that as much fun in 4e as it was in 3e; even though there's not quite as much cool fiddly bits, the 4e powers setup is great, and makes up for that.
I can do fluff, too.
However, I'm kind of busy in RL at the moment, when would you be thinking about this starting?
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I would love to help if there is anything I can do.
I have played 4e, but not much, and not at Epic levels. I understand the mechanics, though.
I love making monsters - I find that as much fun in 4e as it was in 3e; even though there's not quite as much cool fiddly bits, the 4e powers setup is great, and makes up for that.
I can do fluff, too.
However, I'm kind of busy in RL at the moment, when would you be thinking about this starting?
I'm thinking of starting around December/January. I still need to finish the Vampire Bestiary and I also want to do all my prep for these initial collaboration projects.
I'm thinking of starting around December/January. I still need to finish the Vampire Bestiary and I also want to do all my prep for these initial collaboration projects.
OK, good, that would be after the end of this semester.
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Grr...why couldn't you have done this back in 3.X? I would've done anything that needed doing, stats, flavor, editting, whatever.
I feel your pain.
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If/When you do conversions back to 3.5, I'd be all on board though.
I've been awfully neglectful of the Cloverfield project I started (and a big kudos to the guys still going with that!), but I'll also take a stab at converting things to 3.5.
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Originally Posted by Upper_Krust
I don't think I would accept people working for me for free. I certainly don't want to make money (regardless if even a little money) on the backs of other people.
Tell that to your old editors.
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In such cases I could always give you a test, say 4 pages of material based on a bunch of monsters I suggest/outline.
Well, that's definitely something I would like to try, both for you and for me. So you can sign me up for a test-run as soon as you want to!
Excited to be hearing from you later this year, if you still should require my help of course
I've been awfully neglectful of the Cloverfield project I started (and a big kudos to the guys still going with that!), but I'll also take a stab at converting things to 3.5.
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Tell that to your old editors.
Well you did get free copies of the pdfs and the hardcover.
Had a talk with S'mon, who is just recovering from swine flu, he PMed me the following about his thoughts on 4E...
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Originally Posted by S'mon
4e - well it's completely different from prior editions. It's impossible for the GM to keep track of PC powers, you just have to trust the players. Things I like about it:
1. As a player it's exciting to use powers to determine the course of a battle, which used to be only spellcasters could do. I like it that Fighters are a competitive class again. Combat is fun.
2. It's easy to GM with a limited rules knowledge. The Monster Manual is great, with powers fully described the GM can easily run monsters off-the-page. Whereas the 3e MMs and stat blocks are horrible.
3. I like it that a lot of GM stuff is left to GM's discretion, not defined like in 3e. It makes the game more flexible and adaptable.
4. Overall, the game is more high action/low magic than 1e-3e; magic is flashy but now does little you can't do with sword and spear. This makes it much easier to run a plausible campaign world more like our own.
My big initial problem with 4e was the complexity of character creation. It's really difficult to create a PC without the character builder software.
An interesting strategy, getting assistance in writing the book; As I recall, the 3E IH was written 'quickly', (Still was slow) but it was a series of editing updates that delayed the heck out of it. (And the art) Do you have a plan to minimize things of that nature? Heck, what program do you use to publish? (It seemed like doing the edits for the IH caused alot of formatting headaches and so were difficult to input)
Getting a 'group' together to write a book like the IH is quite the undertaking.
Do you have the mechanical systems ironed out? (As I recall, scaling becomes difficult past epic tier without either rewriting the system, introducing more factors, or introducing absolutes)
Do you have a method of communication the writers can use to discuss their works while keeping your unique ideas 'in house'? (Good communication might help foster ideas, and drive the production speed along, and help squash bugs before they arise)
Do you have a calender date to meet? (Really, stop laughing!)
Do you have any compilation concerns that need to be addressed before the book is put into motion? (Using a set of publishing software? A limited pagecount? Etc)
Playtest Considerations? (Its difficult to playtest just one part of the whole; If Person A writes good powers, but Person B introduces bad Feats/Class features, testing them separately might not show that)
It sounds like you definitely want to start out on a good note this time around; I'd offer to help, but I have little previous writing experience. I am quite familiar with 4E (Followed design since 3E, and have run a bi-weekly game since it was released; I design tons of custom stuff for my games which works out quite well). Also I am, as you know, familiar with your previous works and I think I have a good idea of the directions you might want to take this book.
There are likely better writers and designers out there, but I do like designing and debunking, and the IH is one book I would like to see published.
You have some good ideas U_K; I can't wait see them in print. (Though, due to the linear nature of time, without exercising transcendental powers, I guess I must wait...)
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Originally Posted by Anabstercorian
What if someone wanted to play an Awakened Neutronium Golem Wizard?
I don't know whether this is a thing of beauty or evil.
Not doing too bad thanks for asking, hope you have been keeping well yourself?
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An interesting strategy, getting assistance in writing the book; As I recall, the 3E IH was written 'quickly', (Still was slow) but it was a series of editing updates that delayed the heck out of it. (And the art) Do you have a plan to minimize things of that nature?
My strategy for future books is for me to write say, 14 pages which will act as a sort of blueprint for the other writers. I'll give them 6 weeks to turn in their 14 pages. While they are writing I will do the interior art and commission the cover. I am working towards a quicker art style.
So hopefully a turnover of about 2 months per 64 page pdf/book will be (theoretically) possible.
The key is for me to have the work done first. I have a month off coming up in February (and again in May) so it should be fairly easy to keep ahead of the game.
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Heck, what program do you use to publish? (It seemed like doing the edits for the IH caused alot of formatting headaches and so were difficult to input).
I recently upgraded to Adobe INDesign CS4. Considering I was using Pagemaker 6.5 previously thats a big step-up.
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Getting a 'group' together to write a book like the IH is quite the undertaking.
Hopefully by writing my sections first I can 'compartmentalise' the work of the others, and give them enough ideas to act as a springboard for their own ideas.
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Do you have the mechanical systems ironed out? (As I recall, scaling becomes difficult past epic tier without either rewriting the system, introducing more factors, or introducing absolutes)
I have the mechanics ironed out. From my investigations you don't need to make a lot of changes above 30th. In fact I think I have only made two.
I am very confident I have the Legendary Tier 'sussed'. I am however, worried about the Immortal Tier and (eventual) Sidereal Tiers. Should Dimensions replace Portfolios at the Immortal Tier or should they be saved for Sidereals only? Should Classes continue into the Sidereal Tiers or should something else replace those? etc.
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Do you have a method of communication the writers can use to discuss their works while keeping your unique ideas 'in house'? (Good communication might help foster ideas, and drive the production speed along, and help squash bugs before they arise)
Well if we can all arrange (perhaps bi-weekly) meet dates on MSN Messenger I think we could iron out any problems.
Of course individuals can always be contacted via email.
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Do you have a calender date to meet? (Really, stop laughing!)
I haven't even chosen the writers yet. I don't think a physical meet-up would be applicable.
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Do you have any compilation concerns that need to be addressed before the book is put into motion? (Using a set of publishing software? A limited pagecount? Etc)
It would be nice if everyone was using a version of Adobe InDesign, but its not crucial. Copying and pasting (then tweaking) of about 14 pages won't take more than an hour at the most. So even if someone is sending in Word documents its not that much of an annoyance.
The page counts won't be set in stone, but I'd need a good reason for breaking them.
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Playtest Considerations? (Its difficult to playtest just one part of the whole; If Person A writes good powers, but Person B introduces bad Feats/Class features, testing them separately might not show that)
If we get everything done in 6 weeks then we can have 2 weeks for each of us to read over it and comment on possible problems or design flaws.
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It sounds like you definitely want to start out on a good note this time around;
I have so many ideas that its going to be a massive shame to waste them. Just for fun I worked out a schedule the other day and even assuming a book every 2 months I had enough ideas to take us up to 2020 or something like that. Obviously I don't see that happening, but it just gives you an glimpse into how many ideas there are waiting in the wings.
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I'd offer to help, but I have little previous writing experience. I am quite familiar with 4E (Followed design since 3E, and have run a bi-weekly game since it was released; I design tons of custom stuff for my games which works out quite well). Also I am, as you know, familiar with your previous works and I think I have a good idea of the directions you might want to take this book.
As I always said, I don't consider myself anything more than a competent writer.
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There are likely better writers and designers out there, but I do like designing and debunking, and the IH is one book I would like to see published.
Well I can throw you into the mix if you want. I won't be deciding who's in until probably December.
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You have some good ideas U_K; I can't wait see them in print. (Though, due to the linear nature of time, without exercising transcendental powers, I guess I must wait...)
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