GenCon 2009 Game Scheduling ForumGoing to GenCon? Here's the place to look for EN World pickup games, meet-ups, logistics, and the like. Please see the 'instructions' thread inside for how to format your game announcement.
Y'all see the news on the ENWorld front page? Wizards hasn't put any events into the schedule and is saying "we need to wait and see on the bankruptcy before we even say we're attending"?!?
I was getting set to buy plane tickets and sign up for events, but this is a terrible indicator. For Wizards themselves not to buy in? This means to me a better than 50% chance the con won't go off as planned. No way I'm sending them money if it's gonna get swiped into bankruptcy court!!!
There is a lot more to GenCon than WotC. The two times I went, I never spent money at their booth. Plus, I played in a lot of EnWorld's pick-up games. Also, nothing quite like the Ennies.
Sure, I mean, I'm not saying Wizards not being there would kill the con; I try to avoid them myself. What I'm worried about is this as an indicator - Wizards and Gen Con are pretty "tight" still, and for Wizards to say "Uh, we're not going to put in yet because of the bankruptcy" - that seems to say to me "We have some info you don't that this thing's gonna collapse in the next month and people that paid for booths etc are going to have a hard time getting their money back."
I don't think that's it. I think it's more likely to be "we're risk-adverse and want to make sure the show is actually going on before we commit a ton of resources."
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I don't think that's it. I think it's more likely to be "we're risk-adverse and want to make sure the show is actually going on before we commit a ton of resources."
Yeah, but that's pretty much the same thing isn't it? So they have probably more insight than anyone into what's going on. GC LLC had been very "Oh no, no problem here" about the whole bankruptcy thing, and saying "there's no way this will affect GC Indy 2008." Apparently, for whatever reason, Wizards isn't finding that convincing?
My point's just that if Wizards isn't sure the show's going to go on, then I'm certainly not sure it's going to go on, and thus unrefundable $750 airline tickets start looking like a much worse bet.
Why would Hasbro policy have changed since last year? My bet is on PC's theory. Which in turn, does make me somewhat nervous, though at least I don't have to worry about airfare.
__________________ "I hurt Firewing." is not something a huge number of people can say. "He dropped a parking garage on me," on the other hand, a lot of people can say. -Kazan, my Champions GM.
I think there is a different issue here - Notice the the RPGA is still talking about the Finals at GenCon, that the WotC employees are still talking about getting ready for GenCon and the general "non-official" attitude is business as usual? My personal opinion is that they have more work trotting out 4e and that scheduling has been less of a priority and in order to save face, they down GenCon LLC. Also a way to stay on the good side of Lucasfilm, Ltd.
I have said it before, business is business, it isn't personal, but it sure is crappy.
"I may be unconscious, but at least I still look good!" - - Me (at the Halfling Musketeers game GenCon '06)
On one hand, taking away their weapons is a dead giveaway that they will need them. On the other hand, by the time conflict starts the players will already have opened the rulebooks and found the parts that deal with bare-handed combat, performing disarm moves, and using improvised weapons. Players may blunder through dialog with shocking ineptitude, forget the name of the country they are in, or get confused about which side they are on, but once it comes time to roll for initiative they all turn into Sun Tzu. - Shamus Young DM of the Rings
There area fistful of events listed as WotC/AH in the catalog right now, an Axis & Allies tourney, and Axis and Allies casual play. Dunno what to make of that and the lack of other stuff.
__________________
Roleplaying is a mindset. Not a ruleset.
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I'm not trying to write the next great fantasy novel. I'm not an amateur thespian. Nor am I a number crunching, power gaming munchkin, or a rules lawyer. I'm not trying to emulate my favorite movie or novel. I'm not here to tell you how to play or that how you play is wrong or right. I'm neither a "role" or "roll" player. I'm here to have fun. I'm here to enjoy high adventure. I'm a D&D player. Pick up your dice, and start rolling. I'm here to play.
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HINT: Gaming comes down to having fun. If somebody at the table doesn't have the same expectations as the rest of the group, you're going to have trouble. Doesn't matter if it's rule set preferences, roll vs. role play, or bringing the right munchies. You need to set the expectations for the campaign when you gen chars or you are going to get hosed at some point.
I can see WotC being nervous about investing in something that may or may not happen. However, of all the RPG businesses out there, they could afford the risk. Also, Chapter 11 is not typically a sign of a massive problem- I believe you have to qualify for this by making a plan to pay back creditors and get the business back in the black. If you aren't able to make this happen, then you don't get to go into Chapter 11 (which shields you from creditor lawsuits to force you to pay back your debt irregardless of ability). Having business people, I'm sure WotC knows this. That they're still worried is a bad sign.
Also, I don't think 4E work is at fault. If anything, this should have been a well-planned massive roll-out of 4E, as this is the second major con (I'm guessing Origins will have 4E available) where it can be played in full and discussed, and the first one to really have strong ties with WotC. This should have been a grand climax of 4E's release, with big previews of upcoming material and chances to ask questions directly about rules and "Why did you..." decisions. Again, that WotC is worried about using this big of a platform to promote 4E could speak volumes.
2008 could be a very sad year for gaming- it has seen the end of Gary, and it may soon see the end of Gary's convention.
I wonder if that's WotC's plan - they are really pushing "D&D Experience" and maybe they see it as a competitor that needs to go.
Hardly - D&D XP can't hold a candle to GenCon
I think you misinterpreted my meaning about 4e. Yes, this should be the Big Kahuna, roll-out, however, the RPGA events are where most of the WotC events are docked. It is no secret inside the RPGA (of which I am a member) that they have been behind the 8-ball a bit due to the change-over from 1 edition to the next. Unlike the last time, they are bringing the system out a little bit at a time on the RPGA circuit instead of waiting for the big roll out at GenCon or some other event.
The RPGA is sponsored by WotC, but make no mistake, they aren't a subsidiary and with a couple of exceptions ALL of the staff position are volunteer. Not really a whole lot of incentive to try and stay ahead of the game, when the company you 'work' for isn't all that sure what's going on. Frankly, I see this as much ado about nothing.
"I may be unconscious, but at least I still look good!" - - Me (at the Halfling Musketeers game GenCon '06)
On one hand, taking away their weapons is a dead giveaway that they will need them. On the other hand, by the time conflict starts the players will already have opened the rulebooks and found the parts that deal with bare-handed combat, performing disarm moves, and using improvised weapons. Players may blunder through dialog with shocking ineptitude, forget the name of the country they are in, or get confused about which side they are on, but once it comes time to roll for initiative they all turn into Sun Tzu. - Shamus Young DM of the Rings
I wonder if that's WotC's plan - they are really pushing "D&D Experience" and maybe they see it as a competitor that needs to go.
Except that D+DE is in the middle of bloody winter, and held even further away than Indianapolis. And, it's RPGs only, where GenCon has card games, board games, etc., etc.
I suspect, in the end, WotC will end up going to GenCon if only because it's giving their competitors too much of an opening if they don't go.
<rant>
Shame for shame on Hasbro! I can understand the business world of risk aversion, but his is no ordinary risk. This demonstrates a complete contempt for the history of DnD. Certainly, at this point GenCon needs DnD more than the other way around, but such was not always the case.
I suppose I should expect no less from a company that would remove Law and Chaos from the DnD alignment system. They can’t even through GenCon a frik’n bone for an event that can only HELP their 4th Edition sales!?!?!??!?!
I don't think WotC's intent is malicious- if anything, it's not personal; it's strictly business. However, seeing as WotC business execs aren't stupid, and that GenCon would normally be a no-brainer can't-miss opportunity with 4E only two months old, the fact that they think it's risky to be involved in GenCon at this stage in the game says a lot. And let's be honest, between their vendor booth and the gaming celebs they bring in, not having WotC present would be a huge hit to GenCon, on both the financial and image fronts.
Having not seen the schedule, by saying "WotC isn't on the list," does this include any events involving MTG, any other CCG by WotC, DD Minis and other Mini lines, and any non-RPGA role-playing events directly sponsored by WotC? Yeah, that's a big chunk of stuff.
2. "Just business" and "malicious" aren't mutually exclusive. It may be "just business" to try to drive competing businesses, open gaming, etc. out of the market but it is also malicious (specifically done to harm the other party).
Hmm, after reading this, has anyone thought, they may be trying to drive GenCon, LCC to sell the convention back to them, so they can complete a three-way deal with another company? That would alleviate the debt of GenCon, LLC, get the licensing back to Hasbro (if only for a short time) and possibly make room for a sell off at a profit...
You want to talk business, that would be a stroke of genius.
"I may be unconscious, but at least I still look good!" - - Me (at the Halfling Musketeers game GenCon '06)
On one hand, taking away their weapons is a dead giveaway that they will need them. On the other hand, by the time conflict starts the players will already have opened the rulebooks and found the parts that deal with bare-handed combat, performing disarm moves, and using improvised weapons. Players may blunder through dialog with shocking ineptitude, forget the name of the country they are in, or get confused about which side they are on, but once it comes time to roll for initiative they all turn into Sun Tzu. - Shamus Young DM of the Rings
But who would you get to buy Gen Con, and why wouldn't such an investor just buy it prior to WotC making a claim?
If the Chapter 11 is resolved and Gen Con is safely back in the black in time, I don't see WotC sitting out this event. It's too key a marketing tool. Also, this is a huge event for all those publishers WotC wants to sign onto the GSL. A strong Gen Con is in WotC's best interest. Remember, Adkinson bought Gen Con from WotC in part because WotC no longer wanted to be in the convention-organizing business. If they kill Gen Con intentionally, they or someone else will have to create a similar event, and if it's someone else, WotC does not necessarily get the favorable relationship that it currently has with Gen Con. Also, part of Gen Con's mystique is its tradition, something a brand new con lacks; it will take a long time to build up such a tradition, and that could hurt attendance. D&D Experience is young and doesn't sound like it's trying to be a viable competitor with Gen Con- and again, since it only covers D&D, WotC would have to make it bigger to encompass it's other brands, which puts it back at the same spot it wanted to escape in the first place.
WotC would be stupid to want to kill Gen Con. That's what makes their current decision all the more disturbing- why do they think the convention is on shaky enough ground to warrant a "wait and see" attitude when they're normally the first ones in line to get a booth and spots in the event calendar? What do they see that we don't?
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