I intend for this discussion to cover how to correct players in game, or politely (if possible) remove a problem player from your D&D game. I understand that most of you established DM's will have a pretty solid group, by-and-by, and that many of the younger generations (like me) might be having the same problem i am facing.
So, now that the general theme has been set, here's my quandry (and if you didn't get it, please feel free to submit you own problems). I have a player who happens to be our Cleric (he's a Dwarven Cleric of Talos, in FR). The rogue and necro are both halfings, and happen to be the most experienced and better players in my group. We are an evil party, and they are always trying to scheme and talk in halfing a lot (i make my NPCs tell them to stop "talking in gibberish" because they suspect something is up a lot [very seedy and paranoid people, lol]) Before, they would say out loud "okay, halfing talk -now- and start to say aloud what they wanted to do (but now i get them to write in a note-book back and forth). Speaking out loud was a problem, because the Cleric's player could of course hear this, and he'd meta-game to hell and back. He told me in school about his plans to get a permanent 'comprehend language' spell on him, so he could understand them - but in-game, he hadn't introduced any interest in languages at all. Really bad meta-gaming there, adn there are many other times where this has occurded. Then, he turns around and says at school that "okay guys, for next D&D meet, lets just talk in character, no outside conversations." And then at the meet, he starts to go off on tangents. He even thought it would be funny at our last meet to whip a highlighter by my head, which missed his intended target (whatever that was) and hit me right under my eye! I said nothing, but i had the biggest frown on my face for about an hour.
Please don't get me wrong . . .he is a nice guy (read: say nice in a really strained tone) and i am way nicer (out of game, at least :devilsmiley: ) but i am stuck on what to do. I asked the guys after the last game to write their 3 favourite players on a piece of paper with their name at the top (more to prep to see who's going to be in an upcoming, side campaign) and his name didn't come up once. I am frustrated by this, and i don't like giving him the boot, esp. because he goes to the same school with me. So, what should i do here? Is it worth it? can get him to change? how can i try to stem meta-gaming better? Is D&D just not his forte?
Location: In the very bowels of Hell (A.K.A. Chicago)
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyaricus
I intend for this discussion to cover how to correct players in game, or politely (if possible) remove a problem player from your D&D game. I understand that most of you established DM's will have a pretty solid group, by-and-by, and that many of the younger generations (like me) might be having the same problem i am facing.
So, now that the general theme has been set, here's my quandry (and if you didn't get it, please feel free to submit you own problems). I have a player who happens to be our Cleric (he's a Dwarven Cleric of Talos, in FR). The rogue and necro are both halfings, and happen to be the most experienced and better players in my group. We are an evil party, and they are always trying to scheme and talk in halfing a lot (i make my NPCs tell them to stop "talking in gibberish" because they suspect something is up a lot [very seedy and paranoid people, lol]) Before, they would say out loud "okay, halfing talk -now- and start to say aloud what they wanted to do (but now i get them to write in a note-book back and forth). Speaking out loud was a problem, because the Cleric's player could of course hear this, and he'd meta-game to hell and back. He told me in school about his plans to get a permanent 'comprehend language' spell on him, so he could understand them - but in-game, he hadn't introduced any interest in languages at all. Really bad meta-gaming there, adn there are many other times where this has occurded. Then, he turns around and says at school that "okay guys, for next D&D meet, lets just talk in character, no outside conversations." And then at the meet, he starts to go off on tangents. He even thought it would be funny at our last meet to whip a highlighter by my head, which missed his intended target (whatever that was) and hit me right under my eye! I said nothing, but i had the biggest frown on my face for about an hour.
Please don't get me wrong . . .he is a nice guy (read: say nice in a really strained tone) and i am way nicer (out of game, at least :devilsmiley: ) but i am stuck on what to do. I asked the guys after the last game to write their 3 favourite players on a piece of paper with their name at the top (more to prep to see who's going to be in an upcoming, side campaign) and his name didn't come up once. I am frustrated by this, and i don't like giving him the boot, esp. because he goes to the same school with me. So, what should i do here? Is it worth it? can get him to change? how can i try to stem meta-gaming better? Is D&D just not his forte?
Regards,
Nyaricus
A. You need to talk to this guy. Tell him that his meta-gaming is making it harder for everyone else to enjoy the game. Maybe he just doesn't realize how much he irritates the other players.
B. Make it very clear to him that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES IS THROWING THINGS AT THE DM ACCEPTABLE. In such situations, my motto is "Smite the player, not the character." Afterall, it isn't Fragthor the Mighty's falt if his player is a dick.
C. If he refuses to change, then think about booting him.
D. Before you boot him, think about how valuable he is as a friend. If this is a guy that neither you or any of your other players have any real relationship with outside the group, then booting might make sense. But if you or any of your players are friends with this guy, think it over carefully. You don't want to loose more than one player over this.
E. CONSULT WITH YOUR GROUP BEFORE YOU BOOT. I can't stress this enough.
F. If this guy is being truly disruptive, boot him. The game only works if ALL the involved parties are having fun, not just some annoying jerk.
According to this test, I am a Lawful Good Gnome Paladin with the following ability scores:
Str. 10
Dex. 15
Con. 16
Int. 15
Wis. 10
Cha. 12
The test said it, not me. :\
thanks for the feedback BoD. I wil wait till Monday or Tuesday, or a couple more posts untill i make a full response. I'd rather not go through this a half dozen times. Anyways, D&D is tomorrow night, so I'll see what happens, and give an update. I will definitively be talking with himbefore the meet.
Location: In the very bowels of Hell (A.K.A. Chicago)
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyaricus
thanks for the feedback BoD. I wil wait till Monday or Tuesday, or a couple more posts untill i make a full response. I'd rather not go through this a half dozen times. Anyways, D&D is tomorrow night, so I'll see what happens, and give an update. I will definitively be talking with himbefore the meet.
According to this test, I am a Lawful Good Gnome Paladin with the following ability scores:
Str. 10
Dex. 15
Con. 16
Int. 15
Wis. 10
Cha. 12
The test said it, not me. :\
hey BoD, sorry about the long abscene . . . i subscribed to this thread and figeured i'd get a little more feedback then this (this being just you ) but hey, that's cool . . . Anyways, for the last meet he was a lot better. I talked with his ex best friend (who is playing with us, no hurt feeling between the two) and he says that this problem players main problem is that he says he wants to lead, but never goes through with it (ie "come on guys, lets get going" [in game, which gets annoying after the umpteenth time when he is interupting someone elses turn] or "hey guys, next D&D meet, lets ONLY talk in character, no out of game talk" [at school, when he is the main origin of out of game talk]) and he refuses to follow.
The thing is, he took more of a back seat this last meet and allowed others to shine - rather than block out their potential with his voice. And, on top of that, no throwing crap at the DM [and i haev been informed, well, correct rather that it was a glowstick, not a highlighter :P]. The aformention ex-best-friend said he was surprized in his improvement over the course of 3 meets.
Anyways, i will respond to you other inquiries:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade of Desecration
A. You need to talk to this guy. Tell him that his meta-gaming is making it harder for everyone else to enjoy the game. Maybe he just doesn't realize how much he irritates the other players.
talked to him, and he is showingt improvement. Much less sulking and brash talk, and more getting-in-character, which was altogether satisfactory
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade of Desecration
B. Make it very clear to him that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES IS THROWING THINGS AT THE DM ACCEPTABLE. In such situations, my motto is "Smite the player, not the character." Afterall, it isn't Fragthor the Mighty's falt if his player is a dick.
Checkmark. I completely agree with this, and I make sure that i stay impartial. Liek i said, i had a big frown on my face, but i kept the game going - and eventually it was all but forgotten (to the other players).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade of Desecration
C. If he refuses to change, then think about booting him.
He is changing. But it depends on how much. He is slowly getting more mature, and it helps that the 7 other players and myself are telling him to do so. Even at school he has been better, which is good. I can only hope this stays this way
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade of Desecration
D. Before you boot him, think about how valuable he is as a friend. If this is a guy that neither you or any of your other players have any real relationship with outside the group, then booting might make sense. But if you or any of your players are friends with this guy, think it over carefully. You don't want to loose more than one player over this.
I wouldn't lose more than the troublemaker over this - despite his ties to others in the group out of game. They realise that he is being disruptive, adn they know that D&D isn't the only place they could see him - although for us, Saturday night is the night :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade of Desecration
E. CONSULT WITH YOUR GROUP BEFORE YOU BOOT. I can't stress this enough.
Did that. Most would mind, but i am getting feedback that he is improving - that's what i felt as well, adn why i hesitated booting him in the first place. I am just wondering if it is worth all the "extra-curricular" work and all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade of Desecration
F. If this guy is being truly disruptive, boot him. The game only works if ALL the involved parties are having fun, not just some annoying jerk.
i'd say most of the guys are having fun. It's harder with larger groups, for sure. We have two uber-noobs who are a bit quiter than the rest which i am concerned about and to whom i stress to read about the character options they have for their characters. Those fellow both play fighter-types (swashbuckler and ranger) but overall haven't done much in the battales we have had. They are both slowly getting thourhg the combat chapter and hopefully that will help them with their characters. I just hope that they can blossom into good RPers as they are both good guys out of game. For the troublemaker, he is impatient and i think that doesn't help. I and the majority of the players (mainly, the experienced ones, of which he is part of) are trying to tell a story. He is just trying to start crap. Hopefully there will be a place where we can break even in this.
*****
In conclusion, he is staying more on topic, playing more in character, and is being . . .quieter, which is good - and yet he still isn't going on all cylenders. Also, he can easily revert back to being the class clown/troublemaker pronblem player. D&D is off this weekend, so i shall ahve to wait a whole week from this upcoming saturday to se what heppens with him.
Any more coments? Or Need help with a problem player of you own?
I'm sorry I didn't help out any, I just don't have any personal advice to add to the what BoD already mentioned. I've never had to deal with a problem player like that. In fact since I play with my best friends, I would never think of booting them out.
At least he is improving. Maybe one of the other players mentioned his behavior to him or something of the sort.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
"When there are monsters there are miracles."
- Ogden Nash
I intend for this discussion to cover how to correct players in game, or politely (if possible) remove a problem player from your D&D game. I understand that most of you established DM's will have a pretty solid group, by-and-by, and that many of the younger generations (like me) might be having the same problem i am facing.
So, now that the general theme has been set, here's my quandry (and if you didn't get it, please feel free to submit you own problems). I have a player who happens to be our Cleric (he's a Dwarven Cleric of Talos, in FR). The rogue and necro are both halfings, and happen to be the most experienced and better players in my group. We are an evil party, and they are always trying to scheme and talk in halfing a lot (i make my NPCs tell them to stop "talking in gibberish" because they suspect something is up a lot [very seedy and paranoid people, lol]) Before, they would say out loud "okay, halfing talk -now- and start to say aloud what they wanted to do (but now i get them to write in a note-book back and forth). Speaking out loud was a problem, because the Cleric's player could of course hear this, and he'd meta-game to hell and back. He told me in school about his plans to get a permanent 'comprehend language' spell on him, so he could understand them - but in-game, he hadn't introduced any interest in languages at all. Really bad meta-gaming there, adn there are many other times where this has occurded. Then, he turns around and says at school that "okay guys, for next D&D meet, lets just talk in character, no outside conversations." And then at the meet, he starts to go off on tangents. He even thought it would be funny at our last meet to whip a highlighter by my head, which missed his intended target (whatever that was) and hit me right under my eye! I said nothing, but i had the biggest frown on my face for about an hour.
Please don't get me wrong . . .he is a nice guy (read: say nice in a really strained tone) and i am way nicer (out of game, at least :devilsmiley: ) but i am stuck on what to do. I asked the guys after the last game to write their 3 favourite players on a piece of paper with their name at the top (more to prep to see who's going to be in an upcoming, side campaign) and his name didn't come up once. I am frustrated by this, and i don't like giving him the boot, esp. because he goes to the same school with me. So, what should i do here? Is it worth it? can get him to change? how can i try to stem meta-gaming better? Is D&D just not his forte?
Regards,
Nyaricus
Out of morbid curiosity how didi things turn out with the player?
I'm glad everything worked well for you, Nyaricus. If I had seen this thread earlier, I would have advised talking to the player, but booting if anything else flew (no third strike with flying objects!).
RC
__________________ [A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.
RCFG - My free mostly-OGC OGL game! RCFG is intended to be a fusion between OS & NS playstyles, giving the advantages of SRD-based gaming coupled with quick character and adventure generation and an Old School feel.
According to this test, I am a Lawful Good Gnome Paladin with the following ability scores:
Str. 10
Dex. 15
Con. 16
Int. 15
Wis. 10
Cha. 12
The test said it, not me. :\
So I was reading this and was like 'aww, poor Ny, finally found a group and now yer having troubles.' Then I got to the third post and you were like 'I'll wait till Monday or Tuesday' which confused me cause it WAS Monday. Then my eyes strayed and saw the date...last year.
Hope your newest group is going well which, IIRC, it was.
__________________
Quote:
Stupid Firenewt debating Intelligent Ratroo:
Firenewt: cheese no come from cow
Ratroo: Yes, it does
Firenewt: When me eat cow, me no see cheese
Bring back Nightfall Monsters and Villians To Be Updated Soon! Darkness has broken the code of silence and will be illuminated.
So I was reading this and was like 'aww, poor Ny, finally found a group and now yer having troubles.' Then I got to the third post and you were like 'I'll wait till Monday or Tuesday' which confused me cause it WAS Monday. Then my eyes strayed and saw the date...last year.
Hope your newest group is going well which, IIRC, it was.
Yeah its funny how we can randomly bring up old threads and get them running again without even thinking about it sometimes.
According to this test, I am a Lawful Good Gnome Paladin with the following ability scores:
Str. 10
Dex. 15
Con. 16
Int. 15
Wis. 10
Cha. 12
The test said it, not me. :\
lol, 7 posts before the crash, adn 9 after! Muahaha!
Anyways:
RC,
Yeah, I would have given him the boot if he had not left himself and then gotten into the army. It worked out, anyways.
DM,
The new group is pretty good! I actually responded to a post of yours over here though about a couple of my pet peeves with them - one of them being how OT they get, and how long it takes to settle down. However, They all seem pretty enthusiastic about my game, so there's a a balance point, too. I also have another guy and girl wanting to get into my game, but I don't think I have the room. 4 players, with one coming back from a trip next month is 5, and I don't think 7 is a optimum number, in my opinion. It pangs me to turn away people, but I'm kinda in the air about this right now...
BoD,
Yeah, this is all too true - luckily I revived the GMF, eh?
DM,
The new group is pretty good! I actually responded to a post of yours over here
Ah, I missed that. You posted after I went to sleep and I didn't check that thread until the evening yesterday just to see how many hours that session had truly lasted, so I completely missed that post.
__________________
Quote:
Stupid Firenewt debating Intelligent Ratroo:
Firenewt: cheese no come from cow
Ratroo: Yes, it does
Firenewt: When me eat cow, me no see cheese
Bring back Nightfall Monsters and Villians To Be Updated Soon! Darkness has broken the code of silence and will be illuminated.
Ah, I missed that. You posted after I went to sleep and I didn't check that thread until the evening yesterday just to see how many hours that session had truly lasted, so I completely missed that post.
It's all good. But yeah, other than me wanting to get people more ON topic, things are good. I think I might need to start my story hour at some point
) but hey, that's cool . . . Anyways, for the last meet he was a lot better. I talked with his ex best friend (who is playing with us, no hurt feeling between the two) and he says that this problem players main problem is that he says he wants to lead, but never goes through with it (ie "come on guys, lets get going" [in game, which gets annoying after the umpteenth time when he is interupting someone elses turn] or "hey guys, next D&D meet, lets ONLY talk in character, no out of game talk" [at school, when he is the main origin of out of game talk]) and he refuses to follow.
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