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No, Jurathor will be occupying up to 105N105E. As Jurathor approaches, he flies through the wind with no problem (natural 20 Fort save). He detects something at 115N115E.
Proteus does not dodge the sonic power (23 Ref save) and takes 37 points of sonic damage. Proteus has 73 HP remaining.
Proteus
Spoiler:
You now have an invisible twin at 110N115E who is also prone and has 73 HP.
Greybar
Spoiler:
Jurathor detects that something appeared at 110N115E. Jurathor can use breath weapon in round 155. There will be no AoOs as long as your opponents are invisible.
Both Proteus's will try to stand. Does the dragon's blindsense detect both? I know it probably does, even if Proteus doesn't, but it would simplify your job if I post movements/etc. out in the open rather than making you retype everything in hidden messages.
I'll provide additional actions depending on whether either can stand.
Proteus the Elder stands up (18 Fort save), but Proteus the Younger falls back down (12 Fort save). Posting the moves in the open would be greatly appreciated.
Side Note to Greybar: Missed a key detail on Proteus's description. He wields a scythe.
Proteus stands up at 115n115e and mumbles something in abyssal. He moves to 110n90e, standing just beside Jurathor. Someone at 110n115e tries to stand up, but fails. He then casts a spell and a thin red beam of light shoots out and tries to hit Jurathor.
Spoiler:
ray of enfeeblement -- where are the 3rd or 4th level attack spells?
Jurathor attempts to grapple and maul the original being (110n90e).
(Full attack: if I remember this right, each attack can be a grapple attempt, right? Once grappled, just start ripping into the thing.)
__________________ "The DM will do a lot of talking, but if he’s not rolling the dice then what he’s saying is probably not important."
- DM of the Rings
Grappling - there is an ongoing debate about how to conduct grappling with creatures using natural weapons. When a creature uses the “Attack Your Opponent” option in a grapple, it can only use one of its natural attacks at -4, in addition to rake attacks. Rake attacks will not be at -4. If the creature hits, lethal damage according to the natural weapon is inflicted. When a creature uses the “Damage Your Opponent” option, the number of attacks is based on the creature’s BAB. If the creature does not have the Improved Grab ability, a successful grapple check results in lethal damage equal to an unarmed strike based on the creature’s size. If the creature has the Improved Grab ability, a successful grapple check results in lethal damage according to the natural weapon that performed the grab, plus possible Constriction damage.
For Jurathor, the "damage your opponent" option deals 1d6 + Strength bonus.
Proteus misses with his rebuff attempt (rolled 29+2=31). Jurathor moves to 100N90E, touches Proteus (34 touch; 90%) and holds on (45 vs. 29 grapple), inflicting no damage (DR 10 or greater).
Jurathor still has iterative attacks remaining to damage Proteus or pin him (pinning counts as one of the attacks). Next round, you can move with Proteus as a standard action. If you pin your opponent, you can try to (from RoTG):
Toss Your Foe: Make an opposed grapple check as a melee attack. If you succeed, you can literally pick up your foe (provided you can lift your foe's weight). Make a Strength check; if your result is at least 10, you toss your foe 5 feet. For every 5 points your Strength check result exceeds 10, you toss your foe another 5 feet, to a maximum of 25 feet.
Snatch only works against creatures three or more sizes smaller. This was debated in the first round of TBoAA, and decided definitely starting round two.
You are welcome. I will do anything I can to clear up the grapple rules, because I have messed them up far more times than anyone should be allowed.
Jurathor pins Proteus on the first attempt (40 vs. 27 grapple), then damages him three times after that (closest grapple check was 23 vs. 22) for a total of 40-30=10 points of damage. Proteus has 63 HP remaining.
Jurathor pins Proteus on the first attempt (40 vs. 27 grapple), then damages him three times after that (closest grapple check was 23 vs. 22) for a total of 40-30=10 points of damage. Proteus has 63 HP remaining.
OOC1: Unless hasted, Jurathor will get at most 4 grapple checks per round due to BAB. You cannot combine natural weapon attacks and grapple checks. Initial hold + pin + 2 more damage your opponent checks (not three).
OOC2: One other note to Greybar, you can automatically choose to hold your opponent's mouth closed when grappling. It's obvious Proteus has been using it to cast spells, so I'm sure Jurathor would do that, but maybe he's giving Proteus a fighting chance?
Proteus will let go of the scythe and attack Jurathor with natural weapons. The other being will try to stand up again. If successful, he moves to 115n90e. If not, he casts another spell with no visible effect (haste).
Re: OOC1: What a surprise; I messed up with grappling. :\ I did not realize that the maximum BAB for determining iterative attacks is 20. In that case, Proteus took only 25-20=5 points of damage, and has 68 HP remaining.
New OOC: Proteus is pinned, so he cannot attack unless he escapes the pin. Also, in RoTG, after detailing how difficult it is to use spells or SLAs while pinned, it states that if you are pinned you cannot take any other actions besides trying to escape the pin (in place of an attack).
Round 153
The other being gets up (23 Fort save) and moves to 115N90E. Proteus escapes the pin on his first attempt (natural 20). Does he try to damage his opponent or escape the grapple?
OOC1: Unless hasted, Jurathor will get at most 4 grapple checks per round due to BAB. You cannot combine natural weapon attacks and grapple checks. Initial hold + pin + 2 more damage your opponent checks (not three).
PJSlavner, I screwed up in our last session if I let your bear attack with a natural weapon after an improved grab. I2K pointed something else out that I screwed up on our last session - no improved grab with an AoO (grapple check is a free action).
Quote:
OOC2: One other note to Greybar, you can automatically choose to hold your opponent's mouth closed when grappling. It's obvious Proteus has been using it to cast spells, so I'm sure Jurathor would do that, but maybe he's giving Proteus a fighting chance?
Technically, the closing a mouth bit is allowed after a pin, not just when grappling, right?
Besides, if Proteus is invisible, how does Jurathor know where his mouth is?
Good question and whether there is a miss chance in grappling due to concealment is hotly debated. I don't personally care either way and there are good mechanical and flavor reasons for both interpretations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJSlavner
Proteus is pinned, so he cannot attack unless he escapes the pin.
Good point. Duh on me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJSlavner
Proteus escapes the pin on his first attempt (natural 20).
That's another point of contention. I did not think an automatic "hit" (or miss) applied on opposed grapple checks. Maybe Proteus wins on the nat. 20 anyways, but I personally do not rule it that way in my games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansk
I2K pointed something else out that I screwed up on our last session - no improved grab with an AoO (grapple check is a free action).
If it matters, we've been doing the improved grab on an AoO during the course of BoAA. I brought it up a long time ago and you decided to allow it. You may or may not have been influenced by the fact that I also allow it in my game. I just think the idea of a glabrezu grabbing a fleeing wizard is too cool not to allow.
All that said and done, if Proteus escaped the pin, he will try to escape the grapple on his next two iterative attacks.
Good question and whether there is a miss chance in grappling due to concealment is hotly debated. I don't personally care either way and there are good mechanical and flavor reasons for both interpretations.
I don't want to introduce a miss chance, I just want invisibility to prevent body part identification.
Quote:
That's another point of contention. I did not think an automatic "hit" (or miss) applied on opposed grapple checks. Maybe Proteus wins on the nat. 20 anyways, but I personally do not rule it that way in my games.
I think we have been taking "the grapple check is like an attack roll" quote fairly literally, so we'll keep doing it for the sake of consistency.
Quote:
I brought it up a long time ago and you decided to allow it. You may or may not have been influenced by the fact that I also allow it in my game. I just think the idea of a glabrezu grabbing a fleeing wizard is too cool not to allow.
Hmmm, that sounds vaguely familiar. OK, we'll keep ruling that way for the sake of consistency as well.
Proteus escapes the grapple on his last attempt (natural 20). Please select the adjacent square where Proteus ends up.
Proteus ends up where he started, 115n90e. Isn't this grand? Another conundrum. Do invisible attackers provide flanking?
I would normally say no, but Jurathor has blindsense, so I would say that he is aware of the threat from both sides. Also, now Proteus and the other being are sharing the same square and squeezing. I am guessing that was not the intent.
I do not like a natural 20 automatically succeeding to escape or initiate a grapple (unless it is my character trying to escape ), but that is the rule.
Entering the same space as the other guy was definitely not the intent, but I don't think there's any kind of sense between them, so he probably doesn't know he's there. I'd guess that puts Proteus back into Jurathor's Space and prone, right? Or just put him at 115n95e.
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